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Adopting a Kamon as the official crest of your dojo

 
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MLanteigne
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject: Adopting a Kamon as the official crest of your dojo Reply with quote
When my sensei immigrated to Canada from Britain, his former instructor allowed him the use of the kamon we have now, the Yotsume mon. (the 4 diamonds enclosed in a circle.)

But how does a dojo go about officially using a given kamon as their crest? Are they "owned" by certain ryu/families in japan, and one must somehow ask their permission? Do you need to be affiliated somehow?

For example, if one wanted to assume the use of the Tomoe mon (like my avatar), is there an official method in which to do this?

I ask because eventually I'd like to have my own dojo, and my sensei never really "passed" the yotsume mon onto any of us. Now, when I say "my own" dojo, we're talking another good 10-15 years, given my rank now. Anyway, I don't know if it would be proper to just use the yotsume mon, or maybe use a new one but still honour the old one?
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Tsubame1
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Matt.
Why don't make your own design for a personal Mon ?
I'm trying to make my own by 3 years...
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Hometutor
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
In iterature any character over 100 years old is considered public domain. I also recall the Yin Yang symbol cannot be trade marked. It may be the same for this symbol

Rick
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Kazuki
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hometutor wrote:
In iterature any character over 100 years old is considered public domain. I also recall the Yin Yang symbol cannot be trade marked. It may be the same for this symbol

Rick


I don't really think the issue is an issue of pure legality, but more from the standpoint of tradition within the bujutsu community. I'm also not entirely familiar with how that works, honestly. I never took much interest in it. I've only used my family kamon when using stuff related to bujutsu simply by that tradition.

It's certainly an interesting question. Legally, the answer is clear-cut, but in terms of 'softer' issues.... Confused

-Kazuki
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_RK_
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hometutor- I am not sure it works with family badges. I know that with most of polish coats of arms you got to have permission to use such designs (which are properties of families) unless you want to be sued. Honestly- do not know how it works with mon
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kitsuno
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know how much of a "real" issue it is, but one of the disasters in the early years of the Samurai Archives and the delphi forum was when a person mentioned something about using Kamon, and a double team of a rabid Japanese American nazi and a Japanese born psycho flipped out on the forum at the thought of non-japanese using mon for thier own personal use enraged them to the point of causing an uproar on the forum, which then set everyone on edge, and when later on someone suggested the issue of inbreeding in the imperial line, there was a nuclear winter of destruction of PC claims of racism and hatred (in retrospect, that reaction is funny because the imperial line married into the Hojo so much that people who shared the same ancesters married nearly every other generation).

I'd say use it, but don't go announcing it on any JA forums Just Kidding
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MLanteigne
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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Carlo...I was trying to come up with my own...but to be honest, IMO the tomoe mon is literally perfect. From a graphic design standpoint i honestly don't think I could come up with a better balanced, provoking crest if someone paid me a million dollars.

Kitsuno, that indignation is kind of what I want to avoid, especially being in the JSA community. The last thing I want to be seen as is a thief or a gaijin sam-ooo-rye. Respect for tradition is very important to me, but I think if there is no legal or formal manner in which to use a kamon, then I'll just try and go on popular opinion.

But like I said, it won't be for a while, but I thought if there was going to be an issue there, that I should start working on it now.

Thanks for all the posts guys.
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shikisoku
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am Japanese and I have my Kamon.
I was told that I can change my Kamon anytime.(I am not going to though)

After Meiji, people are allowed to pick any Kamon except Kiku(Imperial family's Kamon) and some special ones like Tokugawa's Aoi.

But the common Kamon like Yotsumemon or Tomoe or Mokkou etc... are no problem.
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
shikisoku wrote:
I am Japanese and I have my Kamon.
I was told that I can change my Kamon anytime.(I am not going to though)

After Meiji, people are allowed to pick any Kamon except Kiku(Imperial family's Kamon) and some special ones like Tokugawa's Aoi.

But the common Kamon like Yotsumemon or Tomoe or Mokkou etc... are no problem.


That's interesting - is it something done "officially", like filling out paperwork, or what?
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shikisoku
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
No paper work.
Just put your favorite Kamon on your Kimono or grave stone.
You can even create new one.
You can use smile face Very Happy as Kamon too.
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MLanteigne
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cool. Thanks for the help Shikisoku.
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kitsuno
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
shikisoku wrote:
No paper work.
Just put your favorite Kamon on your Kimono or grave stone.
You can even create new one.
You can use smile face Very Happy as Kamon too.


That seems too easy. In that case, I'm going to make one for myself.
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rikoseishin
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
That seems too easy. In that case, I'm going to make one for myself.


Hey, if Mr Miyagi can have a kamon of a bonsai, you can have what ever you want too Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
>>goes off to make my family a crest Smile
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