Register :: Log in :: Profile   


Tokugawa Yoshinobu's Views on Satsuma and Choshu

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // The Bakumatsu to Meiji
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Obenjo Kusanosuke
Kii no Kami
Kii no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
2009 Benefactor
2009 Benefactor



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 4554
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:42 am    Post subject: Tokugawa Yoshinobu's Views on Satsuma and Choshu Reply with quote
As we are in the final run of our Shinsengumi study group and gearing up for next month's topic covering Sakamoto Ryoma, I thought I should keep on top of my Bakumatsu period history. While re-reading Shiba Ryotaro's biographicalThe Last Shogun, I came across the following quote today from Yoshinobu, explaining in old age, his feelings towards Choshu and Satsuma-- the two major hans that led the anti-bakufu movement that ultimately toppled the Tokugawa regime.

“Choshu had a kind of innocence. From the first, they held high their anti-Tokugawa banner, making it clear that they were our enemy. That’s what I liked about them. Satsuma was different. Until the very end, they were touting kobu-gattai [union of the imperial court and Shogunate], making out that they were my ally, and adopting a conciliatory tone—only to turn at the last possible moment, draw out a gleaming dagger, and stab the bakufu in the heart. Such craftiness is an abomination.”

It was fascinating to me to find that Yoshinobu went to the grave hating Satsuma, but harboring no ill-will towards Choshu.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Baian
Ashigaru Kumigashira
Ashigaru Kumigashira
Veteran Member



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 425
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
He should have studied history. It's pretty obvious that Satsuma always had a problem with those in power. Just Kidding
Oda, Toyotomi, Tokugawa. They all had trouble with them. It shouldn't have been a surprise for him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
niitsu kakunoshin
Gunshi
Gunshi
Veteran Member



Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 805
Location: Yomi

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Tokugawa Yoshinobu's Views on Satsuma and Choshu Reply with quote
Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote:
“Choshu had a kind of innocence. From the first, they held high their anti-Tokugawa banner, making it clear that they were our enemy. That’s what I liked about them. Satsuma was different. Until the very end, they were touting kobu-gattai [union of the imperial court and Shogunate], making out that they were my ally, and adopting a conciliatory tone—only to turn at the last possible moment, draw out a gleaming dagger, and stab the bakufu in the heart. Such craftiness is an abomination.”


I love stuff like that. It's really interesting to see what famous samurai actually thought. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
heron
萩守
Veteran Member
2009 Benefactor
2009 Benefactor



Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 1136
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I remember being struck by this passage when I read it (well, as everyone knows I am a Yamaguchi gal). I think many han felt the same about Choshu which is why they were so reluctant to join the bakufu's punitary expeditions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shikisoku
Yamashiro no Kami
Yamashiro no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 2638
Location: 天領 Tama

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Did he really say that?
Shiba's books are basically fictional stories based on history.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Obenjo Kusanosuke
Kii no Kami
Kii no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
2009 Benefactor
2009 Benefactor



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 4554
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
shikisoku wrote:
Did he really say that?
Shiba's books are basically fictional stories based on history.

Shikisoku,
You are correct about Shiba, but I tend to believe it is a real quote. It is the only *quote* in the entire book--even treated with indented text. This is rare for Shiba unless he is quoting a poem. Ome thing about Shiba is that he does a lot of research and does tie a lot of actual facts into his books. Again, I believe this is a real quote, but unfortunately, like a lot of translations, sources are not included in this book. If you want to dig further into this, please do so. I know that there are a lot of books about Yoshinobu out there in Japanese. My wife even read one, but it is not here in Tokyo as my mother-in-law took it back to Osaka to read. It was I guess a pretty popular book a few years ago.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // The Bakumatsu to Meiji All times are GMT - 10 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Help the Samurai Archives




alexisRed v1.2 // Theme Created By: Andrew Charron // Samuraized By: Aaron Rister

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group