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Do you think Emperor Meiji was replaced?

 
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shikisoku
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:07 am    Post subject: Do you think Emperor Meiji was replaced? Reply with quote
There is a theory that Emperor Komei's son Prince Mutsuhito was killed by Choshu.
And Choshu brought a young samurai as a replacemnt.
His name was Omuro Toranosuke 大室寅之祐.
He's from a small village in Choshu called Tabuse.
He's believed to be a descendant of Sourth court imperial family.(Emperor Komei was North court)

This is why the Meiji government praised Kusunoki Masashige.
There is Kusunoki Masashige statue in front of the imperial palace now.

If you can read Japanese, try google 大室寅之祐.
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shikisoku
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Some reasons
1.Prince Mutsuhito had Smallpox. Emperor Meiji didn't have pockmarks.
2.Prince Mutsuhito was chicken. He lost his mind during Kinmon rebelion because of the sounds of gun shooting. Emperor Meiji inspected his household troops.
3.Prince Mutsuhito was weak, he liked to play with girls. Emperor Meiji was big guy, he liked playing Sumo.
4.Prince Mutsuhito had never ridden a horse. Emperor Meiji rode a horse during the battle of Toba-Fushimi.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Most intriguing, indeed !
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Obenjo Kusanosuke
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes. Interesting theory, but I can't take this so seriously. It is just another conspiracy theory worthy of the History X Files, like Choshu had Komei poisoned (which is more plausible than the the one about Mutsuhito).

Besides, if Choshu did kill the real Mutsuhito, wouldn't they be the biggest traitors to the Imperial throne? It would indeed negate the idea that the Bakufu supporters were imperial enemies! Rolling Eyes
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shikisoku
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kishi Nobusuke(1896-1987), Sato Eisaku(1901-1975) both of the ex-Japanese prime ministers were from the small town Tabuse.
Another ex-Japanese prime minister Hashimoto Ryutaro(1937-2006) his father was son of Omuro Yone who was Omuro Toranosuke's brother's daughter.( I cannot confirm this part)
Former PM Abe Shinzo's brother was adopted to the Kishi family so he has his family register in Tabuse.
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shikisoku
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Omuro Toranosuke


Emperor Meiji
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lordameth
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A very interesting theory. One that could make for the basis of a great counterfactual novel or the like.

Hmmmm.
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Baian
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Although it's just a theory, I believe it makes sense. Choshu got most of the official positions in the new government (I think...far from being an expert on bakumatsu/meiji). Wouldn't be the first time in history something like that happens. People in power always manipulate others for personal gain.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
How much of this stuff is related to Onisaburo Deguchi (1871-1948) and his "Omoto" Shinto religious cult? Didn't this guy claim to be the illegitimate son of Prince Taruhito of the Arisugawa Clan, claiming that he was the rightful heir of the Northern Court as opposed to the current Southern Court line that "usurped" power when Choshu did away with the real Mutsuhito and installed Omuro Toranosuke in his place as an imposter? Rolling Eyes This Onisaburo character also was reputed to be Japan's version of Nostradamus or something of that sort. Gee, this is getting weird. Mulder! Scully! Help!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Careful what you say about Onisaburo-sama or the ghost of O-sensei will teach you what "Peace and Harmony" really means!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As the Onisaburowebsite says, just call his name, and he'll be there for you...

Sounds too "Candyman-eque" for me. Wink Tell me when it's over
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
4.Prince Mutsuhito had never ridden a horse. Emperor Meiji rode a horse during the battle of Toba-Fushimi.


According to Donald Keene's biography of Emperor Meiji the young prince first rode a horse in 1867 (he was born in 1852 so he would have been 15): see Emperor of Japan: Meiji and his world p 170: It's a really interesting paragraph so I'll type it out:

"The one concession to the modern age made by his tutors at this time was to permit Meiji to ride horseback six times a month. His interest in riding had been awakened two years earlier when he rode a horse for the first time, and in the following year he had many occasions to witness displays of horsemanship. Kido Takayoshi, who became one of the Emperor's rare friends, related in his diary how the emperor had rolled up the bamboo screens of his royal box and commanded Kido to ride at the Grand equestrian Review. Kido rode so brilliantly that the emeror placed a flowering branch on his tray of food and cakes and gave him so much sake that Kido became intoxicated. Before long horsemanship became an obsession with the emperor - to the distress of some members of the court who thought he should spend more time reading books and less time on horses. Such activities of the young emperor strikingly contrasted with the sedentary life led by his father who not only never rode a horse but virtually never left the Gosho; they may also account for Meiji's closeness to the samurai class, the respository of Japanese martial traditions."

Of course if this young person was really Omuro Toranosuke it would account for his horsemanship, his friendship with Kido etc etc Just Kidding But the photo evidence seems rather circular, as the same photo is claimed to be Omuro and the Meiji Emperor: hence the amazing likeness Laughing

I agree with lordameth: it would make a great basis for a novel. Razz
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