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Kasemacher
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks like an obstacle for Human Tetris!
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Baian
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tsubame1 wrote:
Lupus wrote:
Its rather insane,


That insane ? THIS is insane : Laughing


Damn! Who's helmet is that?
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ltdomer98
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tsubame1 wrote:
That insane ? THIS is insane : Laughing


Clearly someone is compensating for a little daimyo.
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Lupus
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord of the Red devils..>Why does that sound familiar isn't it a Samurai Unit that all wore red to scare the enemy??

Sorry my History isn't very good this is an area i'm learning as i go folk's..
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evalerio
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lupus wrote:
Lord of the Red devils..>Why does that sound familiar isn't it a Samurai Unit that all wore red to scare the enemy??

Sorry my History isn't very good this is an area i'm learning as i go folk's..


The 'Red Devil' contingent of Ii Naomasa had red armour and red banners and was the vanguard of Tokugawa Ieyasu.

Ieyasu got the idea by being on the receiving end of the attacks of the vanguard troops of Takeda Shingen, the 'Red' regiment led by Yamagata Masakage. Ieyasu would defeat the Takeda and absorb their troops into his army, forming the foundation of the 'Red Devils'. Ieyasu would later take over the territories of the Hojo where the Red Devils were the first into the breach of the Hojo's Odawara castle. The Hojo had 'color regiments' which included a 'Red Regiment'. In the final battle and the epic siege of Osaka Castle, Ieyasu's Red Devils would clash with the equally 'red' contingent of Sanada Yukimura.
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Obenjo Kusanosuke
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I’m not so sure that the Sanada Yukimura contingent at Osaka was predominantly decked out in red lacquered armor? Please keep in mind that the Sanada clan was effectively split in two prior to Sekigahara, with Yukimura becoming the black sheep and sent off into exile after that battle because he sided with the Toyotomi, while his brother remained allied with the Tokugawa (this was under papa's orders to guarantee the clan's survival).

So, when Hideyori issued a call to arms to defend Osaka, Yukimura showed up for the winter siege with only 300 actual retainers. Force strength under his direct command was augmented to approximately 5,000 for the defense of the Sanada Maru (Dec 1614), but these augmented forces were made up of ronin. I seriously doubt that there was time and money to create fancy red lacquer armor for all of Yukimura’s command. The Ii and Matsudaira contingents charged Yukimura’s position and got a good thrashing, causing them to withdraw. This helped Ieyasu decide to turn to artillery to help bring about a successful conclusion of the winter campaign.

At the time of the summer siege and the battle at Domyoji, Sanada had only 3,000 troops under his direct command. The next day, at the climatic battle of Tennoji in May 1615, he was reinforced with additional ronin, bringing his total contingent to no more than 3,500. Again, I seriously doubt the predominant armor color of his troops was red, but rather a motley collection of whatever armor was available for his ronin.
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evalerio
Karou
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote:
I’m not so sure that the Sanada Yukimura contingent at Osaka was predominantly decked out in red lacquered armor? Please keep in mind that the Sanada clan was effectively split in two prior to Sekigahara, with Yukimura becoming the black sheep and sent off into exile after that battle because he sided with the Toyotomi, while his brother remained allied with the Tokugawa (this was under papa's orders to guarantee the clan's survival).

So, when Hideyori issued a call to arms to defend Osaka, Yukimura showed up for the winter siege with only 300 actual retainers. Force strength under his direct command was augmented to approximately 5,000 for the defense of the Sanada Maru (Dec 1614), but these augmented forces were made up of ronin. I seriously doubt that there was time and money to create fancy red lacquer armor for all of Yukimura’s command. The Ii and Matsudaira contingents charged Yukimura’s position and got a good thrashing, causing them to withdraw. This helped Ieyasu decide to turn to artillery to help bring about a successful conclusion of the winter campaign.

At the time of the summer siege and the battle at Domyoji, Sanada had only 3,000 troops under his direct command. The next day, at the climatic battle of Tennoji in May 1615, he was reinforced with additional ronin, bringing his total contingent to no more than 3,500. Again, I seriously doubt the predominant armor color of his troops was red, but rather a motley collection of whatever armor was available for his ronin.


I was skipping details, my apologies. For the Hojo 'red' regiment and that of Sanada Yukimura, I was refering more to the specific 'core' contingent and the mainly red heraldry they flew. Examples of Hojo armour have the mon in red on black armour.

Yamagata Masakage's 'red' regiment only had the 'front rank' in red armour and flew BLACK banners. This unit always shown inaccurately in uniformed red armour and banners in 'Kagemusha', 'Ten to Chi to' and "Furin Kazan'.

Even the Red Devils had a white banner. (To be added later to "Samurai Heraldry' section.) Bonk!
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Lupus
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cool more info to post away somewhere...Wonder if i can get more space for my brain...Its getting a little cramped..
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JLBadgley
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You're absolutely right. I mean, that red with that green? What was he thinking. Wink

Seriously, I almost picture some of these guys with a page holding a mini sasumata just to keep him from falling over.


-Josh
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