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kitsuno
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:18 pm    Post subject: Kanji Flashcard Method Reply with quote
Anyone use flashcards for Kanji? I've always done Jukugo, with the hiragana and english on the back. It builds my vocab, and I get to learn the common On readings. Problem is, it degrades if I don't keep it up, so I'd say I forget the reading for around 40-60% after not going through them for about 6 months, although I can still recognize them, and usually remember what they mean. Any other ideas? I'd say using them and reading every day is probably the only way to make it semi-permanent.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I actually started using flashcards to learn Japanese yesterday, so i am not much help yet. I did see a computer program about two years ago which now i can not find again which had an impressive array of options to help you learn Japanese. It had electronic flashcards, spoken examples, written sentences, videos and a hole host more. I only cost about $100.00 AUS.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shigeru wrote:
I actually started using flashcards to learn Japanese yesterday, so i am not much help yet. I did see a computer program about two years ago which now i can not find again which had an impressive array of options to help you learn Japanese. It had electronic flashcards, spoken examples, written sentences, videos and a hole host more. I only cost about $100.00 AUS.


Yeah, but you can't take that around with you, you'd have to boot up the computer, load the software, etc. Flashcards are quickly accessible. Back when I leared Hiragana (waaaaaaaaay back) I learned it in about a week with flashcards. I love 'em, but they are only good for reading, not writing.
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ltdomer98
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've used flashcards for both kanji and tango. For the kanji, here's what I do:

On the front: The kanji in question, large, in the center. The kanji examples given in the text book are written in smaller print in the lower right hand corner.

On the back: Up top, the kunyomi (multiple, if multiple exist) in hiragana, then the onyomi in katakana. Next is the meaning of the kanji. At the bottom, the reading of the kanji combinations in hiragana, followed by the meaning.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
I've used flashcards for both kanji and tango. For the kanji, here's what I do:

On the front: The kanji in question, large, in the center. The kanji examples given in the text book are written in smaller print in the lower right hand corner.

On the back: Up top, the kunyomi (multiple, if multiple exist) in hiragana, then the onyomi in katakana. Next is the meaning of the kanji. At the bottom, the reading of the kanji combinations in hiragana, followed by the meaning.


I've tried something similar, but without something to connect it to, I never could retain it, so I always used Jukugo, so I could connect it to a particular word.
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ltdomer98
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't do that specifically so I don't connect it only to that one word. Though I do put the example words on the card as well, to give several examples. If I tied it to just one jukugo, that's what I'd learn. If your word is 学校, for example, learning that doesn't give you all the meanings or nuances of 学, or readings, or other combinations, etc.
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kitsuno
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
I don't do that specifically so I don't connect it only to that one word. Though I do put the example words on the card as well, to give several examples. If I tied it to just one jukugo, that's what I'd learn. If your word is 学校, for example, learning that doesn't give you all the meanings or nuances of 学, or readings, or other combinations, etc.


Yeah, but you know the "gaku" and "kou", so you can easily and quickly look it up because you can read it, even if you don't know what it means. Then you create a new flashcard for that jukugo - I gathered about 400 cards over the 4 months I was in Japan in 2004. I need the repitition (which is why I love reading turnbull's books!!)
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ltdomer98
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's just one example--what do you do with a kanji that has 5 different onyomi and kunyomi? And oh, by the way, since you're learning it in one word, you don't *KNOW* it has 5 different readings, since you're only learning it in *this* context? That's why I don't like just studying vocab. I learn a kanji as XY; when I see it as ZX, I have no idea if X still pronounced the same or if it's something else entirely. If I study X by itself, at least I can make a reasonable guess as to which reading fits in each circumstance.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
That's just one example--what do you do with a kanji that has 5 different onyomi and kunyomi? And oh, by the way, since you're learning it in one word, you don't *KNOW* it has 5 different readings, since you're only learning it in *this* context? That's why I don't like just studying vocab. I learn a kanji as XY; when I see it as ZX, I have no idea if X still pronounced the same or if it's something else entirely. If I study X by itself, at least I can make a reasonable guess as to which reading fits in each circumstance.


I have enough experience for that to not be an issue anymore, but I agree, any beginner is going to end up with A LOT of cards Just Kidding

Anyway, if I can't tie it to something, I'll never remember it.
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ltdomer98
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I started that way, and I can't change now. Not that I've used flashcards in about 6 years. Rolling Eyes

And I *do* tie it to something--there are three examples of it's use on each card I write. It's just that the focus is on the particular kanji, and not one word.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno,

For writing practice you can put the stroke order and/or number of strokes on the front like how they do in the kanji learning books.


平和,

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kitsuno
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
msr.iaidoka wrote:
kitsuno,

For writing practice you can put the stroke order and/or number of strokes on the front like how they do in the kanji learning books.


平和,

マット


Stroke order isn't a problem for me anymore, but it would probably be useful for some. Once you internalize general stroke order, it's just top to bottom, left to right, and you just "know" it. It took me writing kanji thousands of times over about 6 months to finally internalize stroke order. Although I think flashcards are generally more for reading, not writing - don't want to have to memorize too much, less is better Just Kidding
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno,

True enough. When I study any of the characters I trace it on my desk/notebook with my fingertip while I look at it to get used to the flow.


平和,

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ltdomer98
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno wrote:
Stroke order isn't a problem for me anymore, but it would probably be useful for some. Once you internalize general stroke order, it's just top to bottom, left to right, and you just "know" it. It took me writing kanji thousands of times over about 6 months to finally internalize stroke order. Although I think flashcards are generally more for reading, not writing - don't want to have to memorize too much, less is better Just Kidding


Agreed--stroke order is intuitive now. However, when I actually *do* study kanji, I *always* write them out. My theory is that if I can write the kanji, I'm darn well going to recognize it. Plus I get the kinetic memory going in addition to the visual and auditory.
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nagaeyari
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://speedanki.com/

I love this site. I've been spending hours going over 2-kyuu kanji.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://jmemorize.org/

While not as nice as speedanki.com (see above post), you can make your own flashcards. I've already inputed about 600 vocab words from texts I've been reading--reviewing them is easy and extremely helpful.

It's also cool because you can use it for English words or dates. I'm getting ready to use it to remember various Japanese historical figures.
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Matsuhide
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Those are some great resources, nagaeyari, thanks!
Now to transfer my thousands of analogue flash cards into jmem...

BTW there are a series of language coach "games" for the Nintendo DS that are supposed to be very effective. They're called "My Language Coach" and made by Ubisoft. Unfortunately they only have French and Spanish at the moment (Ubisoft is a UK based developer). Perhaps if harassed enough Ubisoft (or Nintendo) might consider a Japanese language coach. Seems like a perfect fit to me. Can you imagine how useful practicing kanji on the DS with a stylus would be?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi again!
I've been using speedanki and think it's great for practicing kanji you already know.
However, I'd really like to expand into the ones I never learned in class and for me the best way to learn new kanji was always a combo of grapheme analysis and seeing various contextual/compound applications.
Anybody know any sites that facilitate that kind of approach?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like this site:

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ik2r-myr/kanji/kanji1a.htm

(short: http://www.japanese-kanji.com)

The greatness comes from the possibility to activate/deactivate the on/kun/meaning etc. parts. You can concentrate on one, and of course there are tests.

Of course, FF and rikaichan/peraperakun and furigana injector can be of great help especially for beginners reading a japanese page.


For offline-Flashcards:
word on one side; on the other:
reading top, meaning bottom
stroke number in the middle left and book-number right (to look up more stuff and stroke order)

Even by making the cards you learn a bit.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow. Very glad this thread got bumped. Some very cool tools here.

I feel like i'm a pretty advanced reader but i have 2 clear weak points:

1. Jukugo that i know the meaning, can't remember (or never knew) the reading. I find that I am able to pretty much read through most material. So unless I'm super keen to know the reading, i often just skip over since i know (or i assume) the meaning. Yesterday, I stumbled across 迅速 for the millionth time. For whatever reason i decided i'd had enough and looked it up. Oh it's 「じん」そく. So now i know.

2. The kun-yomi of kanji that normally come in jukugo so i only know the on-yomi. Two of my 苦手s are 営む or 荷う. But there are plenty of others.

I few minutes a day on some of these tools will really be helpful to fill in these gaps.

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm pretty sure this site has been mentioned a while ago, but I couldn't find the post - I've been trying this out for a couple of days, and in my opinion, because of the range of settings and preferences as well as feedback reports (and the fact that you log in so you can permanently track your stats), this is probably one of the best kanji practice/learning sites on the web:

http://www.readthekanji.com/

For the heck of it, I started at JLPT level 3, and currently have 87%. I tried out level 2 for a few minutes, but apparently I'm out of practice with a miserable 35%.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is a cool site. Thanks for the tip!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
addictive Shocked
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