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Matsuhide Bamboo Spearman
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Joined: 15 Oct 2007 Posts: 329 Location: Denver
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject: Help reverse-translating haiku? |
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I came across this particular haiku in a book of death-poems but it's only presented romajized(?) and I think have translated to the corresponding Japanese kanji/hiragana but would appreciate a proofread.
Kanga
喚我
Died 1812
Eng trans:
A chill:
my soul turns into
an icon.
Romaji:
Suzushiku mo
tama wa gazou ni
utsurikeri
Reverse-translation attempt:
凉しくも
魂わ画像に
移りけり
Thanks! _________________ Rekishi to wa, takeyabu ni, tadayotteiru kiri no you na mono desu. |
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kitsuno Forum Shogun


Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 9481 Location: Honolulu, HI
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lordameth Awa no Kami
 Veteran Member 2009 Benefactor


Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1821 Location: 南加州
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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That "wa" should probably be a は, no?
Otherwise, nice work! _________________ My blog on Japanese art & history: http://chaari.wordpress.com
紫水晶殿 - The Amethyst Lord |
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kitsuno Forum Shogun


Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 9481 Location: Honolulu, HI
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Matsuhide Bamboo Spearman
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Joined: 15 Oct 2007 Posts: 329 Location: Denver
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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kitsuno wrote: |
Looks good to me. Your "Romanized" needs work, though |
You mean as opposed to "romajized?"
lordameth wrote: |
That "wa" should probably be a は, no?
Otherwise, nice work! |
そうね。
I knew something didn't feel right about that. Too out of practice...
Nice catch, thanks!
Hey, lastly:
I believe 1812 would be Tenmei 32?
Would that be written 天明三十三年? (Didn't find anything this "modern" in the fascinating "Time in Japan" thread.)
Thanks again!
*edit*
No no no...
Bunka 9
文化九年? _________________ Rekishi to wa, takeyabu ni, tadayotteiru kiri no you na mono desu. |
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Shisendo Bridge Guard
 Veteran Member Multi-Year Benefactor


Joined: 07 Sep 2008 Posts: 311 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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Matsuhide wrote: |
Bunka 9
文化九年? |
That's what I got when I ran it through NengoCalc. _________________ Over a Hedge |
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Matsuhide Bamboo Spearman
 Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Oct 2007 Posts: 329 Location: Denver
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Thank you sir(s)!  _________________ Rekishi to wa, takeyabu ni, tadayotteiru kiri no you na mono desu. |
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Matsuhide Bamboo Spearman
 Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Oct 2007 Posts: 329 Location: Denver
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:16 am Post subject: |
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OK, now to re-translate BACK to English. Maybe...
I think the initial translation I read is alright but, since haiku (generally) don't rhyme and are poetic because of their syllable count, I've always tried and preferred to translate them in a way that transfers that structure whenever possible.
Here's what I came up with last night:
"Also with the chill,
spirits of man; an icon
shall transform into."
Does that seem plausible?
Naturally some artistic (poetic) license must be taken because no one can know the exact symbolism intended by the original author which is part of what makes it poetic.
I translated the "tama wa" as "spirits of man" (i.e. spirits in general, but that phrasing worked phonetically) rather than "my soul" because it is marked the the more generalized "wa" (は! ) and not the more specific "ga." _________________ Rekishi to wa, takeyabu ni, tadayotteiru kiri no you na mono desu. |
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lordameth Awa no Kami
 Veteran Member 2009 Benefactor


Joined: 14 Jun 2007 Posts: 1821 Location: 南加州
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: |
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I don't know why this didn't occur to me earlier, but couldn't the utsurikeri be 映り or 写り?
"My soul reflected in an image" or "Souls reflected in a painting" ... Maybe? What do you think? _________________ My blog on Japanese art & history: http://chaari.wordpress.com
紫水晶殿 - The Amethyst Lord |
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Matsuhide Bamboo Spearman
 Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Oct 2007 Posts: 329 Location: Denver
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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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lordameth wrote: |
I don't know why this didn't occur to me earlier, but couldn't the utsurikeri be 映り or 写り?
"My soul reflected in an image" or "Souls reflected in a painting" ... Maybe? What do you think? |
Maybe, or perhaps "projected." Fortunately "reflect," "project," and "transform" are all two syllables...
The original was translated as "turns into," so I assume that meaning was taken from the original kanji (if any..); but if it was just written in hiragana it could be a number of things, the beauty of such a method.
The translator noted that "gazo" could perhaps be referring to a statue of the Buddha, but not necessarily. If so (and not written in the previously presumed kanji), your interpretaion could make a lot of sense.
I have yet to locate a copy of the original, hence the necessity (well, desire) to reverse-translate. Any examples of other writings by this "Kanga" would be revealing, but I am at a loss. _________________ Rekishi to wa, takeyabu ni, tadayotteiru kiri no you na mono desu. |
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