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mr.miyagi
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:16 am    Post subject: Tai Chi Reply with quote
Is Tai Chi popular in Japan?

Here in the US, it has the image of merely being a stretching excercise for senior citizens. But I have read and heard that it can be an effective martial art as well.

Would anyone care to share their thoughts? It would be most appreciated.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The short forms are good excercises. The long forms are more directly applicable. Chen village has tours and lessons. A good form. Many styles available, Chen, Yang, Sun etc. all have different emphasis. Pushing hands (toushou)is a definite way to get the feel for how different movements may be applied. John
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
About ten years ago, it was something that only housewives did. It's starting to become a bit more mainstream now. There are a few legit teachers in Japan of Chinese heritage who can really do their stuff, mainly Chen stylists.
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mr.miyagi
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Essential to any serious approach to Tai Chi is the flow of Chi (ki) through the body and, in the case of attack, out through the point of impact. I have been given the impression that some Japanese martial arts seek to develop ki as an integral part of their training. I would be interested to know what they are and how they approach the development of this force.
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Bushikan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:53 am    Post subject: Ki Reply with quote
In terms of developing Ki for the Japanese it is very different in context from Chinese. The Chinese stress Ki work in the begining, believing that it permeates everything. A chinese martial artist will use ki to protect themselves, heal themselves, and to guide thier movements (adding force to strikes and making movements effortless) People generally learn Qi gong before they move onto Tai Chi, or Bagua Zhang, or Hi-sing or external styles like Chi Lu Chuan (the 8 animals) or other external styles. Meaning Chinese teach internal then external.

The Okinawan arts teach Ki cultivation in the advance stages. In general students are normally taught to hit thing (meaning targets and people), then after about 3-5 dan depending on the style of karate, you learn internal ki training. Thus the Okinawan's believed in teaching external to internal.

Native Japanese arts have very different opinions about the usage and even the exact definition of ki. For example the Omote no Tachi of Yagyu Shingan Ryu is used to teach one how to cultavate ki, and teaches proper body movement, which is where Ueshiba most likely got his concept of his Aikiken from (though aikiken also has some Kashima Shinto Ryu influence). Meaning that Aikiken itself is a tool to teach aikido-ka how to properly apply thier taijutsu or aikijutsu (not sword fight). Here is a demonstration of Omote no Tachi from Goto ha Yagyu Shingan Ryu: http://youtube.com/watch?v=PyYazHmlH1o

Know that is not the same for all of thier kenjutsu. Goto ha has also some other really interesting kenjutsu kata. When I saw them demonstrate thier advanced kata at the Yasukuni Jinja, I was rather impressed by the forsight and depth of thier advanced waza. Showing exactly how skilled Araki Mataemon was.

Back to the point. As for other ryu-ha the concept of using ki, may or may not exist. Perhaps ryu-ha which involves jujutsu or kogusoku techniqes have the concept of ki. Daito Ryu (one of the ryu-ha which influenced Ueshiba) and Kito Ryu (being from Chinese orgins), have a difinitive concept of ki (though still different from the chinese' perspective). There may be others however in general for the Japanese power, speed, and effortlessness comes from constant practice, and experience in appling techniques. Then again this goes by a ryu-ha to ryu-ha basis. In terms of swordsmanship at least for what I've been practicing the concept of ki (other that ones kiai) does not really exist. I can never recall my instructor ever mentioning Ki.

Btw, The Japanese developed Tai Ki Ken but that is a more modern martial art (with a very interesting perspective of ki)

regard
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This lady sent me her DVD since I rep her. Warning commercial page so the weak of heart should not enter lol

http://kirkhamsebooks.com/MartialArts/Martial_Arts_Videos/TaiChiShortForm.htm

Rick
PS forgot to add there's a video clip on it of the DVD she sent me
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RollingWave
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://sports.cntv.cn/20100511/104361.shtml

here's a recent TV show in China (i think it's this year or last year), basically a chen style Taichi competition, I think the rules bar hits to the head but not much else. and generally points are given to flooring opponents. though obviously there's a bit more show element than competitive (the winner is sort of rigged, as he has a much MUCH more extensive background in the art then the rest, though in the final he faced off against a guy who's also pretty good in sanda as well as other styles)

still, it's a very good show in terms of seeing some real application of Tai chi . you could think of it as more similar to some forms of juijitsu.

(this vid is the final 4s, though you can look around that site for some of the earlier rounds as well.)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is called "TAIKIKEN" there.
Many videos can be found on YouTube on this tag.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My brother is a Tai Chi master. He has been teaching Tai Chi for the past twenty five years. Couple years ago two brothers came to his house to test my brother Tai Chi. The two brothers are both high ranking Taekwondo black belt. My brother in his usual Tai Chi stance. The two black belt brothers used all the strength trying to push my brother over. My brother don't even move a hair. This shows the power of Ki or Qi when you have practiced for a long time. You can control it inside your body.

Last edited by Taisho on Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ltdomer98
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Taisho wrote:
My brother is a Tai Chi master. He has been teaching Tai Chi for the past twenty five years. Couple years ago two brothers came to his house to test my brother Tai Chi. The two brothers are both high ranking Taekwondo black belt. My brother in his usual Tai Chi stance. The two black belt brothers used all the strength trying to push my brother over. My brother don't even move a hair. This shows the power of Ki or Qi when you have practised for a long time. You can control it inside your body.


Isn't this the plot for every "Sunday Kung Fu Theater" movie ever?
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Tornadoes28
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
Taisho wrote:
My brother is a Tai Chi master. He has been teaching Tai Chi for the past twenty five years. Couple years ago two brothers came to his house to test my brother Tai Chi. The two brothers are both high ranking Taekwondo black belt. My brother in his usual Tai Chi stance. The two black belt brothers used all the strength trying to push my brother over. My brother don't even move a hair. This shows the power of Ki or Qi when you have practised for a long time. You can control it inside your body.


Isn't this the plot for every "Sunday Kung Fu Theater" movie ever?


Yes, I believe so.
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Taisho
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It sounds like a kung fu movie. But I am telling the truth. That's fine if you don't belive it.
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RollingWave
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DEGLU5WEvM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EFN6kAnMtI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jLbmTnrAUM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaC1gyrygms&feature=related

Although this was more or less a show match nature, I thought it was a decent demonstration of the application of Taichi in general.
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