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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject: Paradox Interactive's next game: Sengoku! Reply with quote
http://www.paradoxplaza.com/press/2011/2/paradox-interactive-announce-sengoku

I'll be following this one very closely, me being a Mod on their forum and all that. Shocked
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The graphics on the country map look cool. I'm glad the game starts in 1467. Maybe I will be able to try out all the strategies described in the Mary Berry book like burning half of Kyoto and staring across the street at my enemies without doing much fighting! Just Kidding
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
For anyone who'd like to join in on the closed Beta test of Sengoku, just CLICK HERE to enter. You have until May 23rd to enter, and you should be notified on the 25th if you've been chosen.

We've been in contact with Paradox and we'll be running a series following the development of the game along with exclusive interviews from the design team and screenshots from their press server (along with other goodies). Look for the first installment this weekend in this forum.
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tatsunoshi wrote:
For anyone who'd like to join in on the closed Beta test of Sengoku, just CLICK HERE to enter. You have until May 23rd to enter, and you should be notified on the 25th if you've been chosen.

We've been in contact with Paradox and we'll be running a series following the development of the game along with exclusive interviews from the design team and screenshots from their press server (along with other goodies). Look for the first installment this weekend in this forum.


Trying to sign up--how do I find out how much dedicated RAM I have? Not even sure I know that that means--open C drive space?
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:

Trying to sign up--how do I find out how much dedicated RAM I have? Not even sure I know that that means--open C drive space?


Right click on "My Computer" and click "properties", and click the "general" tab.
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Got it. How much you want to bet they come here, read my comments, and say "no thanks" because they're afraid I tell them the truth? Very Happy

edit: for instance, I'm already falling deeply in hate with this "make alliances with powerful ninja clans" thing, and I've only looked at the webpage for a few minutes.

Edit II: Also worried that a game that "starts" in 1467 highlights that you can trade with Portuguese and Dutch powers. I hope they don't have the Portuguese show up until 1543, and the Dutch until 1600...
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Drakken, you're a mod on the forum? I've been reading some of the discussion, and you really need to send some of them here. The whole "must have been a Minamoto to have been Shogun" discussion is making my eyes bleed.
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
Drakken, you're a mod on the forum? I've been reading some of the discussion, and you really need to send some of them there.


Did you mean "here"?
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno wrote:
Did you mean "here"?


Yes, and fixed.
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
Got it. How much you want to bet they come here, read my comments, and say "no thanks" because they're afraid I tell them the truth? Very Happy


Well, that’s exactly what they WANT out of a Beta test. Although they’ll be more interested in having you report any bugs or technical glitches (which is the #1 reason for running a Beta), suggestions for improving the interface, play balance problems, etc etc, I’m sure they also won’t mind hearing about anything that’s too much ‘out there’. Just remember that in any historical game there are tradeoffs made between historical accuracy and playability. The ‘trade with foreigners’ thing will likely be adjustable, but the ninja recruitment will be something that’s expected by everyone who buys this type of game (let’s face it, everything from Nobunaga No Yabou to Takeda and STW has it). Hopefully it just involves hiring individual ninja from ‘Iga and Koga clans’ and not having ninja be a playable faction like the godawful Hattori in TWS2 (in my current campaign as the Hojo, they wiped out the Oda on turn one and overran central Japan in no time-20 turns into a 220 turn game, they already own 1/3 of the provinces). I can tell you Paradox has a great reputation for producing highly detailed, very involved and realistic strategic games (unlike TWS2, you won’t be playing out the battles on a tactical level) and the stuff I have from them bears it out. I’ll be reviewing ‘Divine Wind’ here in the next couple of weeks, which is an expansion to one of their regular games that adds China and Japan. The one thing you might not find to your liking is that their games tend not to have ‘victory conditions’ as it were-the games are open ended and players are assumed to be setting their own goals and time periods. This allows things to be a bit more accurate-you can play as a small clan and set more modest goals (like just surviving, or building the most powerful trading fleet in the nation, etc), or play as a large one and go for domination. I just hope they have the Chiba in there-they were still pretty powerful at the time the game starts before they split into factions during their battles with the Uesugi and Ashikaga.

BTW, Domer, if your system handles TWS2, you shouldn’t have any problems running Sengoku.
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tatsunoshi wrote:
but the ninja recruitment will be something that’s expected by everyone who buys this type of game (let’s face it, everything from Nobunaga No Yabou to Takeda and STW has it).


Never played Takeda, but it's certainly not featured heavily in the Nobunaga no Yabou games I have (that said, haven't had a chance to play my copy of the latest that much). The Hattori in STW2 is horrendous, and it really bothers me that they didn't do away with the stupid geisha as well.

Quote:
The one thing you might not find to your liking is that their games tend not to have ‘victory conditions’ as it were-the games are open ended and players are assumed to be setting their own goals and time periods. This allows things to be a bit more accurate-you can play as a small clan and set more modest goals (like just surviving, or building the most powerful trading fleet in the nation, etc), or play as a large one and go for domination.


Not sure why I wouldn't like that? More flexibility to develop correctly, rather than OH CRAP HAVE TO MEET ALL THE WIN REQUIREMENTS BY 1600 BETTER DEVELOP SUPER NINJA EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT REAL AT ALL? Yes please.

And my system doesn't handle STW:2 all that WELL--really runs slowly.
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm thinking the ninja game mechanics in Sengoku will be pretty much identical to those in the Nobunaga No Yabou series-at least I hope so. Ninja can do quite a bit in Yabou if you choose to play that way, although I usually don't.
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tatsunoshi wrote:
I'm thinking the ninja game mechanics in Sengoku will be pretty much identical to those in the Nobunaga No Yabou series-at least I hope so. Ninja can do quite a bit in Yabou if you choose to play that way, although I usually don't.


Which Yabou are you talking, here? I don't really remember them playing much of a role at all. Of course, I don't like them, so I don't mess with them. The computer/PS3 doesn't seem to employ them against me, either.

In STW:2, I usually just use them for situational awareness. Sure it's a dude in a nightsuit, but the effect is just the same as if I bribed the cook's maid in the castle I've got him spying on. I also might use them to take out ninja/metsuke/monks from the other team, but I don't really use them to go after military targets. It works out okay, it's just cheesy. THe Hattori clan, however, needs to be removed. Especially since every time I start a new game they take out the Oda right away.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
Which Yabou are you talking, here? I don't really remember them playing much of a role at all. Of course, I don't like them, so I don't mess with them. The computer/PS3 doesn't seem to employ them against me, either.


Pretty much all (except for a couple of HH versions) the Yabou games from the original PC game way back in the 80's to the newest have at least seven or eight missions for ninja-spy on an enemy province, fire an enemy castle town, destroy enemy rice fields, spread unrest among civilians, spread false info in an enemy army, bribe an enemy officer, assassinate an enemy officer-some have even more, like slowing down an enemy army's march, bodyguarding a daimyo, that sort of thing. The version I'm playing now is the IPhone version and the going price for ninja Ninja! is right on the main screen along with rice prices and ashigaru recruitment cost-the strategy tab is filled with nothing but missions for ninja. I usually never use ninja in a Yabou game-the action (not to mention money) spent is almost always better used on something else. They're sometimes useful in the late game when you have boatloads of money and want to take over provinces via bribery or assassination.

ltdomer98 wrote:
In STW:2, I usually just use them for situational awareness. Sure it's a dude in a nightsuit, but the effect is just the same as if I bribed the cook's maid in the castle I've got him spying on. I also might use them to take out ninja/metsuke/monks from the other team, but I don't really use them to go after military targets. It works out okay, it's just cheesy. THe Hattori clan, however, needs to be removed. Especially since every time I start a new game they take out the Oda right away.


I usually attach mine to an army as a scout to increase its movement rate, and also as you use them. A couple of times I've used them to open a castle gate. I hate the Hattori Clan with a passion-it wipes out all the daimyo I really want to fight.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Which reminds me, Geisha Vs. Ninja looks like a winner!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evrk3c_MTCE
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno wrote:
Which reminds me, Geisha Vs. Ninja looks like a winner!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evrk3c_MTCE


You have a higher cheese tolerance than I do.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tatsunoshi wrote:
Pretty much all (except for a couple of HH versions) the Yabou games from the original PC game way back in the 80's to the newest have at least seven or eight missions for ninja-spy on an enemy province, fire an enemy castle town, destroy enemy rice fields, spread unrest among civilians, spread false info in an enemy army, bribe an enemy officer, assassinate an enemy officer-some have even more, like slowing down an enemy army's march, bodyguarding a daimyo, that sort of thing.


I guess I don't see that as all that "prominent". I mean, you could hire people to do all those things--that they call them 'ninja" doesn't really bother me. They have to call it something, and it all falls under shinobi-like activity. And you don't have 27 little ninja icons running around, like in STW, or battlefield ninja units, or the damn Hattori clan.


Quote:
I usually attach mine to an army as a scout to increase its movement rate, and also as you use them. A couple of times I've used them to open a castle gate. I hate the Hattori Clan with a passion-it wipes out all the daimyo I really want to fight.


I guess attaching them to an army might be useful. I haven't really seen too much value in putting them (or monks/priests, or metsuke) in an army though, when I can send them further afield to do things. I was playing mostly with the Shimazu as Christians, so conversion was important. What bothers me about religion is that there doesn't seem to be an option to convert to Ikko-shuu. That's garbage. And conversion really wasn't worth it, as guns don't really seem to give you that much of an advantage over bows in tactical battles. The range of bows usually outweighs anything else.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno wrote:
Which reminds me, Geisha Vs. Ninja looks like a winner!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evrk3c_MTCE


Available on DVD as "Geisha Assassin"-and yes, it's a winner!
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
I guess attaching them to an army might be useful. I haven't really seen too much value in putting them (or monks/priests, or metsuke) in an army though, when I can send them further afield to do things. I was playing mostly with the Shimazu as Christians, so conversion was important. What bothers me about religion is that there doesn't seem to be an option to convert to Ikko-shuu. That's garbage. And conversion really wasn't worth it, as guns don't really seem to give you that much of an advantage over bows in tactical battles. The range of bows usually outweighs anything else.


I usually use cheap trading ships as my long range scouts (except for landlocked provinces) rather than ninja-you get double duty from them and save a lot of money that way (not to mention trade ships usually 'live' longer and can be used to transport armies). The bump an attached ninja scout gives to an army is substantial, and since I tend to go for the swift, surgical strike rather than overpower a foe works better for my style of play. When a province's army leaves its castle to attack another province, it's time for the 'sammyrai amphibious assault'-having a fast army once it 'hits the beaches' usually allows me to capture an enemy castle before they can send back reinforcements.

Guns do seem to be underpowered compared to bows-the more advanced guns are somewhat better, but still, bows almost always work better (for one reason, you can fire over the spearmen in front of you on a flat field rather than through them like gun troops do-and I LOVE fire arrows). I suppose that's the game's attempt to work around gun-crazed Westerners who are used to playing Call Of Duty Laughing .

Judging from some of the new unit types in the latest patch, it seems that playing as the Ikko-ikki might be an option in the inevitable expansion pack. I think most Westerners in general don't really differentiate between the different schools of Buddhism (it's usually all Zen to them, and 'Western' Zen at that)-or for that matter even the simple differences between the Ikko-ikki and 'warrior monks'. The game designers sure don't. I'm also thinking that the overall theme of an expansion might be 'The Korean Invasion'-there's a ship in the game that's a turtle boat in all but name (the cannon bune). Since my style leans heavily on the navy, that'd be fine with me.

I really haven't messed too much with the religion factor. I usually stay away from the 'foreign religion' just on general principal, but I haven't bought heavily into Buddhism either (other than some basic builds to get some Monk agents). My guns I get from building advanced trading ports, and then stick a monk in the province to keep Christianity from spreading.

That's the really impressive thing about TWS2-there's really no right or wrong way to play, and players are limited only by their imaginations when putting together an overall gameplay strategy.

I think Sengoku will use the same ninja mechanics as the Yabou and Takeda games-I don't think there are going to be battlefield units. If they do, feel free to have at them. Wink
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I got in to the Sengoku Beta. Anyone else?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
I got in to the Sengoku Beta. Anyone else?


Didn't bother asking. I trust you, I'm quite certain in my knowledge that you'll make sure it's as historically realistic as it can get.

Before, mods and admins were automatically considered betas if they requested to be included, but with the explosion in the number of mods the practice was abandoned.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
Drakken, you're a mod on the forum? I've been reading some of the discussion, and you really need to send some of them here. The whole "must have been a Minamoto to have been Shogun" discussion is making my eyes bleed.


Yeah, I took a long hiatus from this forum and from Japanese history in general. Embarassed

What's your nick over the PI forums? Mine's fairly obvious if you pay enough attention. Cool

I did correct Captain Gars who believes the whole "Hideyoshi could not become shogun" nonsense and laid the smackdown on this asinine obsession about including Ezo and the Matsumae/Kakizaki clan of Japanese Riverdance tapdancers in the game. No one gave a damn about Hokkaido back then.

Hope you like my interventions. Just Kidding

I'll bring more people over here for discussions. I'm thinking even including a link to here in my signature.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Got it.

If enough of us people buy it, how about we arrange a SA multiplayer game? We study the period so much, it'd be fun for once to actually apply our studies. Twisted Evil
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