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nagaeyari
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is the smell of it crashing and burning Laughing
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kitsuno
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nagaeyari wrote:
That is the smell of it crashing and burning Laughing



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shikisoku
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
How do the Bizen swordsmith and the Ki clan(紀伊国造) relate by the way?
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shin no sen
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quoting part of a previous post. "As to the Bizen kaji; there was a smith Bungo Yukihira and a disciple known as Ki (紀) no Masatsune considered to be Bungo smiths. Their swords do not follow Bungo style though, more Bizen. The Masatsune lineage MAY be descendants of Yukihira and the Ki family. Ichimonji Sukemitsu and Sukeyoshi for example signed with the family name Ki 紀 which derives from the Xi family which started the Zhou dynasty and subsequent branch family starting the Jin dynasty." There were many acclaimed lineages by different kaji that really are affectations and this may be the case here as well. ie. Taira, Minamoto, Tachibana, Sugawara, Fujiwara and Ki being well known family names being used by various kaji. This is part of the mystery. John
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shikisoku
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
No record to back up?
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shin no sen
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm not sure what you mean. The smiths I mentioned are recorded. If you mean from where does the Ki family name originate or why they use it, no. That is the mystery. John
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ltdomer98
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno wrote:
Hmmm.. I think I might smell the slight fragrance of a Yayoi podcast on the winds...


As long as it's not a Yaoi podcast.
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shin no sen
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hahahaha!! That would certainly be a perfumed subject in a gay sort of way!! Shocked John
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shikisoku
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
shin no sen wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean. The smiths I mentioned are recorded. If you mean from where does the Ki family name originate or why they use it, no. That is the mystery. John


Any evidence to fill between the Ki clan(紀伊国造) and the swordsmith?
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shin no sen
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Only conjecture. There are many unfounded or unproven but accepted lineages early on with no definitive answers. Records among the kaji can be sporadic. Even Masamune, time wise relatively late, has legends surrounding him and his disciples that are tough to unravel. John
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shikisoku
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
鉄から読む日本の歴史
Quote:
中国の鉄治が漢代のように鍛造の盛んになった時代もあるが、一貫して鋳造を中心にしているのに対して、我が国の鉄器が弥生期前半の若干例のみが鋳造で、その後は鋳造品が非常に少なくなり、あとは鍛造のものばかりになっていることである。
おそらくその原因は、初期の鉄製品が輸入品であったことと、我が国に加工技術の流入したのが伝播経路は別として、中国としては鍛造が盛んになった漢代に入った頃であったからではないかと思われる。

"China's metallurgy was mostly cast iron except Han dynasty period.
In Japan, a few iron wares in early Yayoi period were cast iron, but mostly were forged iron wares.
The cause was, probably metallurgy was brought to Japan during Han dynasty period."

How about that?
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