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Banquets in the Sengoku era?

 
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hashiba_hideyoshi
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2014 3:40 am    Post subject: Banquets in the Sengoku era? Reply with quote
I was trying to look up how celebration/New Year banquets go in those times. I mean, the closest thing I get is that it was served Kaiseki-style? I'm not sure if that's even correct. I don't want to believe what I see in manga and anime because I don't know what part is artistic liberty and what is historically true.

I also heard that kaiseki in the old times is not like what kaiseki is like now. So... what were big dinner parties like in those days? Do they have musicians and dancers? Do they have meals in multiple courses? Do they just get one big tray of food and eat and drink leisurely?

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is a book in Japanese by Ego Michiko Nobunaga no Otenashi that goes into great detail on Sengoku/banquet cuisine.

I have seen displays of Sengoku banquet models at Azuchi and Gifu City Museum of History. The famous one is Nobunaga's at Azuchi for Ieyasu. I have a postcard replica of the banquet which consisted of several dishes.
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh! Can you post a picture of the postcard, otsuke? I'd love to see it.
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just wrote a blog post with the picture. Enjoy!

http://otsuke.blogspot.com/2014/05/azuchi-banquet.html
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you are looking for info on Japanese food culture, you may want to look at Naomichi Ishige's The History and Culture of Japanese Food. Another option is Eric Rath's Food and Fantasy in Early Modern Japan.

The picture posted is honzen-ryori, where the dishes are arranged on tables (zen), coming out in various courses. The format for each table roughly corresponds with "ichiju-sansai" (one soup, three side dishes), though I have seen some variations on that.

Some things I've learned but don't know enough about yet:

1) For New Year's banquet, there are certain foods that are supposed to be medicinal. "Tooth hardening" seems to be a particular favorite reason for a food to be included.

2) There appear to have been some dishes that weren't meant to be eaten. I don't entirely understand this, yet. Still trying to get a better understanding, when reading menus, as to what was edible and what wasn't.

3) You might get a display of hochodo--a special carving demonstration. It is common to see in depictions of feasts, and if you want to see it in action look up video of "四条流包丁道".


-Josh
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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have seen a sample of Eric Rath's work. It seems that lavish crane soup/crane meat was a popular dish among the elite samurai like the big three. Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, and Ieyasu.
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Crane (black or white) was a popular banquet dish for Edo period daimyo in general-it's specifically mentioned in an anecdote in the Hagakure.
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What? No Tenka Fuburgers?
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nah... Nobunaga never quite got them to come out as he wanted. Close, but never quite close enough.
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Crane isn't bad, swan now, that is the best, although I prefer fall time swan better. Migration just happening now. No swans yet, but, geese have started flying and getting a few of those. Snow geese so far. John
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
JLBadgley wrote:
The picture posted is honzen-ryori, where the dishes are arranged on tables (zen), coming out in various courses. The format for each table roughly corresponds with "ichiju-sansai" (one soup, three side dishes), though I have seen some variations on that.
Wow! Aren't there six tables (+, I think, sake)? "ichiju-sansai" (one soup, three side dishes) is what Rikyu recommended for a whole meal. (Of course, that was besides rice and sweets.)
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
When I've looked at menus, they seem to generally correspond with a ratio of soup to side dishes of about 1:3, give or take. That may have been an addition to culture from Rikkyu or he may have been giving voice to a "rule" that was already in place, intentionally or not. I can't claim to have done exhaustive research on it yet, however, and much of what I've seen could be post-Sengoku, as much of the information is frustratingly labelled as "traditional". I do know that the number of tables varied depending on the meal, elaborate presentations may have a single dish of some sort, and rice does not appear to have been counted as a dish for purposes of balance (though it would still be balanced with other dishes on the table)--rather it seems just to be something that you have as a matter of course.

I am not familiar enough with the drinking traditions of Sengoku to comment on that part of it, unfortunately. I know that in earlier feasts there was a ritual drinking of sake--multiples of 3 seem to have been preferred (I believe that "Confessions of Lady Nijo" specifically describes 9 rounds of sake at one such event; this being considered a bit excessive, iirc)--and then there appears to have more drinking at the "after-party" held after the formal banquet was finished. I don't know how much of the Heian period "kyo" traditions made their way through to the Sengoku period (or later), however.


-Josh
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
JLBadgley wrote:
Nah... Nobunaga never quite got them to come out as he wanted. Close, but never quite close enough.


That's right. The disaster at Mt Hiei was said to have been the result of a cookout gone horribly wrong.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There seems to be a Nobunaga meal served at a ryokan in Gifu. It looks delicious.

http://www.gifu-np.co.jp/news/kennai/20140607/201406070937_22666.shtml
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote:
What? No Tenka Fuburgers?

... I wonder what those burgers would have looked like if they existed. I kind of want one now.

Tatsunoshi wrote:
JLBadgley wrote:
Nah... Nobunaga never quite got them to come out as he wanted. Close, but never quite close enough.


That's right. The disaster at Mt Hiei was said to have been the result of a cookout gone horribly wrong.


Mostly because the monks were offended at the burgers, but Nobu insisted on having them anyway...
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote:
What? No Tenka Fuburgers?


Here's a little something to go with those 'burgers...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That is, in fact, the reason Mitsuhide had to attack so early in the morning. He had to catch Nobunaga before he had his morning cup of Joe, otherwise there's no way he would have been able to subdue a caffeinated Tenkabito.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
So, uh... Tenka FuBurgers?



Chocolate Banana "chicken burgers". Because... uh, I've been re-reading Nobunaga no Chef? I don't know if Japanese from that era eat beef, so chicken it is...
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