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Meaning: shogun in Latin

 
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: Meaning: shogun in Latin Reply with quote
I know this forum has to do with Japanese language, but I have to ask this. Does anybody know the meaning of Shogun in Latin? The reason I ask is Luis Frois and his posse had to know. My history teacher at San Diego State mentioned it, but that was a long time ago. Forgot it.

Les aka Nobu-chan Embarassed Confused
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
shogun doesn't look like a latin word.
On the top of that, the digraph sh doesn't even exist in latin, nor does the sounds it usually represents.

In Portuguese, the japanese sound sh is traditionnaly represented with letter x, and if you look at the Portuguese article of shôgun, you'll find it written xogum.

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xogum

And, even with this very latin-like ending, it's still not a latin word.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think the question is 'how did people translate "shogun" into Lain'? I don't know that they did.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think Josh is right. Based on memory, with no sources in front of me as I am not at home, I think Frois referred to Shogun Ashikaga Yoshiaki by the more common alternative Japanese contemporary word for shogun--"kubo". Hence, in his writings, Frois spells it "cubo" and uses it with the honorific "sama" suffix.

Something tells me that the word "shogun" may not have been included in the first Japanese-Portuguese dictionary as well as any Japanese-Latin dictionaries that the Jesuits may have compiled during the 16th century.

HOWEVER, I am willing to wager that the word "shogun" does appear in the Japanese-Latin dictionary that was compiled by Father Juan V. Catret, based in the diocese of Hiroshima. He published the Lexicon Latino-Japonicum Ecclesiae (Shinseisha, Nagoya, 2002). I found out about this dictionary via Google. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
JLBadgley wrote:
I think the question is 'how did people translate "shogun" into Lain'?

Oops, sorry.Embarassed

In his Christian triumphes of martyrs in Japan, that was originally written in latin, Jesuit Father Nicolas Trigault called Nobunaga " imperator Nabunanga ". Not to forget that in latin, imperator does not only mean "emperor", but also "leader" or "great general".
Even if Nobunaga has never been shôgun, it gives an idea.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actually, it should also be remembered that 'shogun' just means 'general'. Then you have 'daishogun' which is 'great general'.

The full titles is "征夷大将軍" (Seii-Taishogun--the last part can also be read daishogun). So there could have been a translation--it depends on how much the Portuguese understood and how much they knew about the Ashikaga shogunate.

-Josh
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow! Thanks for eveything! bow

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The closes Latin term for Shogun would be Imperator abbreviated IMP. This title was awarded mostly to the emperor and indicates a military leader or general.
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