Register :: Log in :: Profile   


For February - Shinsengumi!
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // Oshirase
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:08 pm    Post subject: For February - Shinsengumi! Reply with quote
Next up, the Shinsengumi!

For anyone planning to join the discussion group, I highly recommend getting your hands on Romulus Hillsborough's book, "Shinsengumi". I've read most of it, I'll finish it before the next discussion group starts. It is an interesting narrative, although sometimes it is hard to follow, and many "questionable" points have been brought to my attention by the people at the ShinsengumiHQ, but since it is the bulk of what is in English, it should be on the list. I am stopping short of saying it is "required", but I really recommend you getting your hands on it for the discussion.

I also recommend you browse through www.shinsengumihq.com - the "samurai archives" of the Shinsengumi, to get a feel for the details. Lots of good info there, including a reading list, from which you should try to get your hands on some things before the 10th.

I also recommend renting a few Shinsengumi DVDs just to get a handle on the concept. "When the Last Sword is Drawn" comes immediately to mind, although the main character is fictitious, and the movie doesn't focus entirely on the Shinsengumi. Anyone else can feel free to recommend some Shinsengumi movies here as well.

I'll be starting this one up on February 10th so I can organize, so I recommend reading up as much as possible from this point on with hillsborough's book and with the shinsengumiHQ. Also, there's some info on the SamuraiWiki, and on wikipedia as well.

Consider this the sign up thread - if you want to join the group, sign up here - however, be warned that there will be some (relatively painless) homework assignments to facilitate discussion, with a goal of adding more info to the SamuraiWiki. I also will require one "thoughtful" question per week per participant - which should be relatively easy if you don't know the Shinsengumi.

(and Seven, if you're interested in helping me out, I'd enjoy the assistance!)

Lastly, there are nine more months this year unaccounted for, so if anyone has a topic they want to facilitate, let me know.


Last edited by kitsuno on Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tatsunoshi
Miko no Kami
Miko no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 4923
Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sign me up. I have a propensity to learn.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Obenjo Kusanosuke
Kii no Kami
Kii no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
2009 Benefactor
2009 Benefactor



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 4554
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:35 am    Post subject: sign me up!! Reply with quote
Sign me up! It will be both an honor and a privilege to serve. 誠に、ありがとうございます。宜しくお願いします。

I agree with Kitsuno that Hillsborough’s book, while a bit confusing, is probably the best starting point to learn about the Shinsengumi in English, unless you can read Japanese. If some of you are speed readers and can burn through this book, I suggest trying to read a little more about the Bakumatsu period in order to understand the flavor of the times that gave rise to the Shinsengumi and pro-imperial extremists. The saga of the Shinsengumi is not really a clear cut story of good vs evil or right vs wrong. The Bakumatsu period was a turbulent time for Japan and turbulent times often breed extremist views that can lead to acts of wanton aggression and violence. The Shinsengumi are a product of the times and the Shogunate’s need to sanction the use of brute force to fight brute force. Strictly to give a flavor for the times, my suggested mixed-bag of reading material covering true history with some blended historical fiction covering the final years of the Shogunate includes:
1) Romulus Hillsborough’s Ryoma: A Renaissance Samurai
2) Romulus Hillsborough’s Samurai Sketches (helps if you already know something about the period and the major players before reading this)
3) Ryotaro Shiba’s The Last Shogun: The Life of Tokugawa Yoshinobu
4) Ryotaro Shiba’s As Drunk as a Lord (helps if you already know something about the period and the major players before reading this)
5) Marius Jansen’s Sakamoto Ryoma and the Meiji Restoration
6) Mark Ravina’s The Last Samurai: The Life and Battles of Saigo Takamori (About Saigo Takamori; not that dude who likes jumping on Oprah’s couch)
7) Sir Ernest Satow’s A Diplomat in Japan

For those of you who prefer to get a feel for the Shinsengumi and the Bakumatsu period from the small screen (you still have to read Hillsborough’s Shinsengumi book!), try the following films and TV shows apart from When the Last Sword is Drawn.
1) Moe Yo Ken- (Burn My Sword) both movie and TV series (not the anime!) Based on a book by Ryotaro Shiba, this tells the story of the Mibu Wolves with the center of attention being on Hijikata.
2) Band of Assassins– starring the legendary Toshiro Mifune as Kondo. Although Mifune is too old for the part, he is still a silver-screen samurai kami sama.
3) The Last Swordsman- this is the story of Okita Soji- perhaps the Shinsengumi’s most gifted swordsman.
4) Tenchu (Hitokiri)- this is the story of Izo the Butcher—a member of the Tosa Loyalists Party (radical pro-imperialists). Izo was responsible for carrying out a stupendous amount “tenchu” (heaven’s revenge) assassinations.
5) Shinsengumi- the 2004 NHK taiga drama. 52 or 53 episodes in length, the set can be purchased with English subtitles. The only fault with this series, besides a slow start and some silly stuff about Kondo Isami being friends with Sakamoto Ryoma is the fact that Kondo is played by Katori Shingo of Japanese boy-band SMAP fame.

Most of the above should be available on DVD and based on personal experience, can be purchased from Kurotokagi.com or SamuraiDVD.com.

This is going to be a fun study group and I look forward to participating.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shikisoku
Yamashiro no Kami
Yamashiro no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 2638
Location: 天領 Tama

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I must sign up too.

All of my books are Japanese so I will try to provide graphical informations.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ltdomer98
Daijo Daijin
Daijo Daijin
Veteran Member



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 5456
Location: Washington (the one with all the politicians)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Um...

count me out, guys. Sorry--not my cup of macha.
_________________
Bring it on, laddie 'Domer
The Sengoku Field Manual Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wave Tossed
Tsushima no Kami
Tsushima no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 1698
Location: Columbia, Maryland U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd like to sign up. Though I probably won't contribute as much as I've done with the 47 Ronin. My "thoughtful" questions will probably consist of such masterful, probing inquiries as "why are the Shinsengumi so popular??!!" Rolling Eyes Just Kidding

I've never been much of a Shinsengumi fan, so I would like to join, just to see what fascinates so many people about the Shinsengumi. Shocked Twisted Evil

Any chance of a Sakamoto Ryoma discussion sometime in the future? Smile
_________________
"Walk the thousand mile road, step by step" -- Miyamoto Musashi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
msr.iaidoka
Iaidouka
Iaidouka
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno,

Sign me up.


平和,

マット
_________________
鋼鉄の海軍
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
rikoseishin
Shushou
Shushou
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 861
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I guess I can sign up for this one. But I may not e able to contribute that much.

And I agree with Wave, I do not understand why they are so popular, but I a more baffled by the large number of western fans. I wonder why it never occured to these people that they wold have cut them down in a heart beat.
_________________
"The end of our Way of the sword is to be fearless when confronting our inner enemies and our outer enemies."
-Yamaoka Tesshu

Jonah Matheson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rikoseishin wrote:
I guess I can sign up for this one. But I may not e able to contribute that much.

And I agree with Wave, I do not understand why they are so popular, but I a more baffled by the large number of western fans. I wonder why it never occured to these people that they wold have cut them down in a heart beat.


I'm pretty sure the main reason is Anime. But generally speaking it is a pretty epic time for the Edo period.

And, like I said, there's going to be concrete requirements on this one Just Kidding
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
rikoseishin
Shushou
Shushou
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 861
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh I agree. And of course, the olny thing I think about, this period did see a large revial of koryu sword amd the cretion of several more ryuha.

And I will do all you want as long as it does not conflict with other requirments.
_________________
"The end of our Way of the sword is to be fearless when confronting our inner enemies and our outer enemies."
-Yamaoka Tesshu

Jonah Matheson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rikoseishin wrote:


And I will do all you want as long as it does not conflict with other requirments.


How flexible are your morals? Twisted Evil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
rikoseishin
Shushou
Shushou
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 861
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Back in my younger days when I was going to go into the army, I was told I had the right mental flexibility to be a SNIPER!
_________________
"The end of our Way of the sword is to be fearless when confronting our inner enemies and our outer enemies."
-Yamaoka Tesshu

Jonah Matheson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wicked iemon
The Lemon King
The Lemon King
Iga no Kami
Iga no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1091
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sign me up for this one (sorry i missed Chushingura )right of the bat Hillsbourough's hatchet job of a book contains many myths and distortions of history (yes i know he has a disclaimer in the intro )and i know the man personally ,his Shinsengumi lectures actualy are much more pro than his book ,anyway enough of this bakufu thug image(yes i know they were not nice people ) the other side have far more thuggery to their resume than these guys
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
heron
萩守
Veteran Member
2009 Benefactor
2009 Benefactor



Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 1136
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd like to sign up, though I also can't understand the fascination with the shinsengumi - many far more interesting things were going on during that period. But I'd like to understand more of the real shinsengumi.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dennis
Artisan
Artisan
Veteran Member



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
May I join, preferably just auditing the discussion, so that everyone won't point and laugh at my ignorance? I just saw "When the Last Sword Is Drawn? a couple of days ago. My wife and I thought the film very sad, and it was the first time we had come across Shinsengumi.

Why do you say it is so popular among westerners? Is there this American sub-culture I've not encountered? Or is it more European?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Don't worry, I'm keeping track of all the "sign ups" - on or around February 10th you'll all have access to a private forum where the discussion will take place. There will be some minor requirements, which I haven't worked out yet. But if you are a newbie, be sure to ask questions. Also, since there is still about 2 weeks left, I recommend everyone to try and get thier hands on some of the books/articles mentioned above, and to take a look at these:

http://www.shinsengumihq.com
http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index.php?title=Category:Shinsengumi

http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index.php?title=Shinsengumi
http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index.php?title=Serizawa_Kamo
http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index.php?title=Kondo_Isami
http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index.php?title=Hijikata_Toshizo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
wicked iemon
The Lemon King
The Lemon King
Iga no Kami
Iga no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1091
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:28 am    Post subject: Shinsengumi Reply with quote
I was the author of the Filmography on SHQ (And boy do i have to update that by another 40 titles at least )and thought it would be fun to also include some of the myriad of films /tv dramas about this bunch ,like the 1991 Kadokawa production where Ken Watanabe plays a gay Ryoma Sakamoto in love with Okita who than makes the Shinsengumi dress up in sailor suits and takes them to sea where they all get seasick .But we can cover things like the TV version of When The Last Sword Is Drawn w/Watanabe ,and the most acurate ,best /worst ect
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
rikoseishin
Shushou
Shushou
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 861
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Shinsengumi Reply with quote
Wicked Iemon wrote:
.But we can cover things like the TV version of When The Last Sword Is Drawn w/Watanabe ,and the most acurate ,best /worst ect


HUH? Shocked
_________________
"The end of our Way of the sword is to be fearless when confronting our inner enemies and our outer enemies."
-Yamaoka Tesshu

Jonah Matheson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tatsunoshi
Miko no Kami
Miko no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 4923
Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've been watching the Shinsengumi taiga which I find I'm enjoying a lot more than I thought I would. I have to say, though, that based on the first ten episodes, it is playing fast and loose with history and pulling a lot of stuff out of their rear ends. I mean, Kondo visiting the black ships-saving a foreigner-drinking with English sailors and seeing them slaughtered-just seems like there's a lot more 'creative enhancement' than the Sengoku dramas.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tatsunoshi wrote:
I've been watching the Shinsengumi taiga which I find I'm enjoying a lot more than I thought I would. I have to say, though, that based on the first ten episodes, it is playing fast and loose with history and pulling a lot of stuff out of their rear ends. I mean, Kondo visiting the black ships-saving a foreigner-drinking with English sailors and seeing them slaughtered-just seems like there's a lot more 'creative enhancement' than the Sengoku dramas.


I've been downloading it from d-addicts.com, but the sound quality is absolutely horrible. It makes it next to impossible to watch. It's like someone held a tape recorder against a speaker cranked all the way up. I want to watch it, but with the horrible sound quality, I don't know if I will.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
wicked iemon
The Lemon King
The Lemon King
Iga no Kami
Iga no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1091
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:50 pm    Post subject: Shinsengumi Reply with quote
The taiga drama really picks up by around ep 15 ,people in Japan were really upset about the meetings with Kondo ,Hijikata ,Ryoma and Kido in the early 1850's but turns out all 4 were at various dojo's within a 2 block radius of each other at that time period ,NHK Historians actualy had records from the 3 dojo's in question .(So they say ).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ltdomer98
Daijo Daijin
Daijo Daijin
Veteran Member



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 5456
Location: Washington (the one with all the politicians)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tatsunoshi wrote:
I mean, Kondo visiting the black ships-saving a foreigner-drinking with English sailors and seeing them slaughtered-just seems like there's a lot more 'creative enhancement' than the Sengoku dramas.


That's because Shinsengumi is That's gay and they have to do something to make it less BOOOOOORRRRIIIIINNNNGGGGG....

I'm hiding


    EDIT: It has been brought to my attention that some members who actually enjoy Shinsengumi may take issue with the above statement. The "smileys" included in the post *SHOULD* be an indication that I AM KIDDING; while I could care less about Shinsengumi, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with people who do. As I've stated before, it's not my cup of tea. I don't expect everyone here to have the same fire and passion for 15th century taxation policies that I have. If you're the type of person who is so insecure that you get violently upset when someone makes a joke about your particular interest, you need to seek therapy. FURTHER EDIT: This in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM reflects anyone's opinion other than my own, and IS NOT meant to represent the official stance of the Samurai Archives Website or Forum, which should be painfully obvious as this thread is ABOUT THE FREAKING SHINSENGUMI STUDY GROUP this forum is holding. If you aren't smart enough to realize that, your keyboard will be taken away from you and all further posts of yours must be in crayon. If, perchance, after this lengthy disclaimer you *STILL* feel morally, ethically, emotionally, intellectually, socially, physically, or in any other way offended by my lack of interest in the Shinsengumi, then feel free to PM me. I'll pick up a free pack of tissues at the entrance to my local train station and send them to you, so you may wipe away your tears.

_________________
Bring it on, laddie 'Domer
The Sengoku Field Manual Blog


Last edited by ltdomer98 on Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shikisoku
Yamashiro no Kami
Yamashiro no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 2638
Location: 天領 Tama

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
1991 Kadokawa production where Ken Watanabe plays a gay Ryoma Sakamoto in love with Okita who than makes the Shinsengumi dress up in sailor suits and takes them to sea where they all get seasick .


Is it Bakumatsu Junjo Den? 幕末純情伝
The subtitle was "Okita Soji was a girl!?"




I don't think it worth to discuss.

"When The Last Sword Is Drawn" would be good.
But TV version may be hard to find for people live outside of Japan.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dennis
Artisan
Artisan
Veteran Member



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno wrote:
I've been downloading it from d-addicts.com, but the sound quality is absolutely horrible. It makes it next to impossible to watch. It's like someone held a tape recorder against a speaker cranked all the way up. I want to watch it, but with the horrible sound quality, I don't know if I will.


It appears someone may have uploaded it to YouTube in 3000 2 minutes segments.. more or less - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc7P8BwXYgw&mode=related&search=
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Obenjo Kusanosuke
Kii no Kami
Kii no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
2009 Benefactor
2009 Benefactor



Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 4554
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:37 am    Post subject: Okita Soji: Babe or Not? Reply with quote
shikisoku wrote:
Quote:
1991 Kadokawa production where Ken Watanabe plays a gay Ryoma Sakamoto in love with Okita who than makes the Shinsengumi dress up in sailor suits and takes them to sea where they all get seasick .


Is it Bakumatsu Junjo Den? 幕末純情伝
The subtitle was "Okita Soji was a girl!?"




I don't think it worth to discuss.

"When The Last Sword Is Drawn" would be good.
But TV version may be hard to find for people live outside of Japan.


Oh come on Shikisoku-san! What do you mean Bakumatsu Junjo Den is not worth dicussing? Okita Soji-chan is a total BABE! 彼女はすごいかわいですね!
Maybe we should start a simple poll "Okita Soji: Babe or Not?"

And regarding the sexual preferences of the Shinsengumi-- I saw Gohatto and everything about it is true--and accurate (especially the uniforms) it has to be-- if they made a movie about it! Movies never lie!! Laughing

--Disclaimer---
OBENJO KUSANOSUKE DOESN'T CARE if the Shinsengumi are gay or not or if Kondo enjoyed shoving his entire fist in his mouth or other orifices. I don't care if Okita Soji was a mighty morphin power ranger or if Saigo Takamori was really a silly sentimental chump or if Sakamoto Ryoma's wife was the founder of the Fri-to-lay snack company. Perhaps the Kaientai and Shinsengumi jointly held secret hanami parties every April? Maybe Serizawa Kamo was assassinated because he was a real "quacker". Again, I don't care and neither should anyone else. This disclaimer is not associated with the views of the Toto Industries or the Japanese Rice Counter's Association.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // Oshirase All times are GMT - 10 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Help the Samurai Archives




alexisRed v1.2 // Theme Created By: Andrew Charron // Samuraized By: Aaron Rister

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group