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takuan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject: Your papers please Reply with quote
Forgive me if this isn't the type of question to be asking here, but often when watching jidai-geki, I'll notice samurai (occasionally women as well) with what looks like a bunch of paper folded in half and jammed into the front of their kimono. Are these documents of some kind, or just paper for cleaning spills (like blood)?

Thanks,

PG
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nagaeyari
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Whenever I see folded papers stuffed into the front of a kimono in jidaigeki, the protagonist uses them to wipe the blood off of his sword (which he just used to kill a whole town). I don't know of identification papers, but I believe this is what you were referring to.
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niitsu kakunoshin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nagaeyari wrote:
Whenever I see folded papers stuffed into the front of a kimono in jidaigeki, the protagonist uses them to wipe the blood off of his sword (which he just used to kill a whole town). I don't know of identification papers, but I believe this is what you were referring to.


Ancient form of kleenex. Wink

When you live in an age of bloody warfare, it is ALWAYS good to be prepared. I've always wondered about that myself.
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Ashigaru
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's called kaishi (or futokorogami, an alternate reading of the same kanji, 懐紙), and it was used for a variety of purposes, including blowing one's nose, jotting down poetry or notes, toilet paper, etc.
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takuan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Right on, thanks for the info.
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niitsu kakunoshin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ashigaru wrote:
It's called kaishi (or futokorogami, an alternate reading of the same kanji, 懐紙), and it was used for a variety of purposes, including blowing one's nose, jotting down poetry or notes, toilet paper, etc.


niitsu kakunoshin wrote:
Ancient form of kleenex.


Wow, I was actually pretty much right then! Very Happy
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Ashigaru
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just to expand on my last post, the kanji used for the word kaishi/futokorogami mean "bosom paper" basically, since that was where it was tucked into.

And yeah, in jidai geki it's usually used to wipe the blood off the hero's sword. When he throws it away it tends to flutter down to cover the face of his fallen enemy. Cool
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niitsu kakunoshin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ashigaru wrote:
When he throws it away it tends to flutter down to cover the face of his fallen enemy. Cool


It's the polite thing to do... Since the guy is usually grimacing in a pretty unbecoming way. I feel bad for the first people to come across the body. "Dude... do you think he's sleeping? I dunno he's in a weird position man. Lemme just check... *lifts paper* Uuuu... he's dead. He's dead? Yep he's dead. Just take his money and let's get outta here."

Laughing
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takuan
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK, so since we've gotten onto swords, what to you call that little ball with the powder in it that samurai lightly tap on their swords and then wipe off with kaishi? Is the powder polish, or does it sharpen the blade? (Question, questions, I'm full of 'em ... )
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niitsu kakunoshin
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
takuan wrote:
OK, so since we've gotten onto swords, what to you call that little ball with the powder in it that samurai lightly tap on their swords and then wipe off with kaishi? Is the powder polish, or does it sharpen the blade? (Question, questions, I'm full of 'em ... )


I believe it is used to absorb the oil on the blade when cleaning it.
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Ashigaru
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
takuan wrote:
OK, so since we've gotten onto swords, what to you call that little ball with the powder in it that samurai lightly tap on their swords and then wipe off with kaishi? Is the powder polish, or does it sharpen the blade? (Question, questions, I'm full of 'em ... )


If he doesn't chime in shortly, PM Tsubame1. He's one of the sword guys here.
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nagaeyari
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I believe it's called uchiko, but it's been a while since I've dealt with swords.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nagaeyari wrote:
I believe it's called uchiko


Correct.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Uchiko is rxactly right, it is traditionally made with powder made from the finishing stones of the polishing process. It removes oil as nitsu said but since it is abrasive slightly modifies the polish of a sword over time. There is some controversy in its use for swords that see no use as a weapon as the polish can be ruined by its use. BTW, some forms of kenjutsu use the kaishi in their forms as part of the suburi before noto. John
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Coolness. Thanks all!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
takuan wrote:
OK, so since we've gotten onto swords, what to you call that little ball with the powder in it that samurai lightly tap on their swords and then wipe off with kaishi? Is the powder polish, or does it sharpen the blade? (Question, questions, I'm full of 'em ... )
This little ball with powder is called a uchiko. It's used to polish and clean a sword blade. Being the owner of a 400 year old wakizashi, I have a uchiko myself and I have used it. You hold the uchiko in your hand and lightly tap it on the blade. It will spread some of the powder. Then you use a specially-made paper to wipe off the excess powder and do the polishing.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
shin no sen wrote:
Uchiko is rxactly right, it is traditionally made with powder made from the finishing stones of the polishing process. It removes oil as nitsu said but since it is abrasive slightly modifies the polish of a sword over time. There is some controversy in its use for swords that see no use as a weapon as the polish can be ruined by its use. BTW, some forms of kenjutsu use the kaishi in their forms as part of the suburi before noto. John
You have to be careful not to over-use your uchiko on your sword. Overuse can actually damage your blade. What I've read is to use it perhaps once every few months, not more often.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Greetings all,

Unless you handle your blade then you do not need to use the uchiko. It is meant to remove the "bad" oil from your body. A coating with chouji oil is best for the blade. Not a heavy, dripping into a puddle, coating. Just a nice even, thin, coating. If you have an antique that you do not touch with your hands then all you need to do every month or so is reapply the oil.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
msr.iaidoka wrote:


Unless you handle your blade then you do not need to use the uchiko. It is meant to remove the "bad" oil from your body. A coating with chouji oil is best for the blade. Not a heavy, dripping into a puddle, coating. Just a nice even, thin, coating. If you have an antique that you do not touch with your hands then all you need to do every month or so is reapply the oil.



So I guess the reason samurai are seen using the uchiko on their blades in movies is because they're cleaning the "bad oil" (and other fluids) left on the blade from the bodies of their foes ...
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
takuan,

If the movie is trying to be accurate, yes. Iaidouka often use the powder as well since oil from the skin gets on the blade from certain techniques. However, for the sake of not scratching the blade too badly (as overuse of the powder will do) they can just use the "good" oil and a cleaning cloth and save the powder for a few times a year.


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