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kitsuno Forum Shogun


Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 9481 Location: Honolulu, HI
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: Possible next discussion group |
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I am considering running a discussion group on 15th century politics, since I'm finding this whole Kubo/Kanrei/Shogun mess pretty interesting - anyone else interested in doing this? |
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JLBadgley Tsushima no Kami
 Forum Kanrei


Joined: 09 Apr 2007 Posts: 1617 Location: Washington, DC, USA
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: |
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Sounds interesting. I'd be willing to participate, if I can take the time (not entirely sure what kind of time commitment is involved).
-Josh |
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ltdomer98 Daijo Daijin
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Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 5456 Location: Washington (the one with all the politicians)
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:30 am Post subject: |
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I'm certainly in for participation, as much as I can. _________________

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Obenjo Kusanosuke Kii no Kami
 Forum Kanrei
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 4554 Location: Tokyo, Japan
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: |
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While the subject is interesting, how much material is easily accessible? I've been doing what I can to help out with the kanrei/kubo/shugo/jito topic, but finding enough material in English on has proven a bit difficult. I mean, a few of you who have access to Japanese-language sources may be able to get on ok with this topic as a viable study group, but I think it would be a pretty small group. Anyway, that is just my thinking for what it's worth. |
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Tatsunoshi Miko no Kami
 Forum Kanrei
 Multi-Year Benefactor


Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 4923 Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote: |
While the subject is interesting, how much material is easily accessible? I've been doing what I can to help out with the kanrei/kubo/shugo/jito topic, but finding enough material in English on has proven a bit difficult. I mean, a few of you who have access to Japanese-language sources may be able to get on ok with this topic as a viable study group, but I think it would be a pretty small group. Anyway, that is just my thinking for what it's worth. |
I'd be in. |
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kitsuno Forum Shogun


Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 9481 Location: Honolulu, HI
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote: |
While the subject is interesting, how much material is easily accessible? I've been doing what I can to help out with the kanrei/kubo/shugo/jito topic, but finding enough material in English on has proven a bit difficult. I mean, a few of you who have access to Japanese-language sources may be able to get on ok with this topic as a viable study group, but I think it would be a pretty small group. Anyway, that is just my thinking for what it's worth. |
Warrior rule in Japan, and Sansom's first or second volume, I can get some articles as well. I'm sure there are more, I'm just not really up to date in English language scholarship - maybe Berry's "Culture of Civil War in Kyoto" as well. |
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ltdomer98 Daijo Daijin
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Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 5456 Location: Washington (the one with all the politicians)
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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kitsuno wrote: |
Warrior rule in Japan, and Sansom's first or second volume, I can get some articles as well. I'm sure there are more, I'm just not really up to date in English language scholarship - maybe Berry's "Culture of Civil War in Kyoto" as well. |
Varley's "The Onin War" would be useful as well, as it explains all the background, of which this is a part. _________________

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Ashigaru Wakasa no Kami


Joined: 07 May 2006 Posts: 1879 Location: Tokyo
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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The whole kanrei/kubo discussion has been way over my head, but I'd be interested in participating now that you guys are taking a break from the Bakumatsu stuff.
ltdomer98 wrote: |
Varley's "The Onin War" would be useful as well, as it explains all the background, of which this is a part. |
Available for the low, low price of *$72.50* from Amazon.  _________________ Meditate upon exile, torture, wars, diseases, shipwreck, so that you may not be a novice to any misfortune.
- Seneca |
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kitsuno Forum Shogun


Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 9481 Location: Honolulu, HI
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Ashigaru wrote: |
Available for the low, low price of *$72.50* from Amazon.  |
It's worth it - it has translations and is a combo narrative/military history. I bought it for $40 years ago, but of course I don't have it here. |
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ltdomer98 Daijo Daijin
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Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 5456 Location: Washington (the one with all the politicians)
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'd buy it as well. They've got a copy here at the library on post. Great book. _________________

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JLBadgley Tsushima no Kami
 Forum Kanrei


Joined: 09 Apr 2007 Posts: 1617 Location: Washington, DC, USA
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:29 pm Post subject: Japan in the Muromachi Age |
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Japan in the Muromachi Age is possibly of interest. Edited by John Hall, it contains a number of essays on Muromachi Japan--I seem to recall it has something on the Kubo/Kanrei stuff if I can dig it out. I remember there was one essay talking about the change in the cities and village structures. I think another talked about the general hierarchy. I'll have to look it up again and see what I can find.
-Josh |
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msr.iaidoka Iaidouka
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Joined: 24 Jun 2006 Posts: 1865 Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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kitsuno,
That would be worth a shot.
If we wind up with a month with nothing to do I could run a cinema compare/contrast like I IM'd you about a little while ago.
平和、
マット _________________ 鋼鉄の海軍 |
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Tornadoes28 Oki no Kami
 Veteran Member 2009 Benefactor


Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 1420 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Japan in the Muromachi Age |
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JLBadgley wrote: |
Japan in the Muromachi Age is possibly of interest. Edited by John Hall, it contains a number of essays on Muromachi Japan--I seem to recall it has something on the Kubo/Kanrei stuff if I can dig it out. I remember there was one essay talking about the change in the cities and village structures. I think another talked about the general hierarchy. I'll have to look it up again and see what I can find.
-Josh |
I saw this book at the library and was wondering if anyone has read this and what their opinion of this book is? It looks interesting. _________________ http://twitter.com/28loki
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shin no sen Izumi no Kami
 Veteran Member Multi-Year Benefactor


Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 1056
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:56 am Post subject: |
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I have it. It is a good book for info on political and social structure of the period. John _________________ 知恵は時間及びエネルギーである |
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Tornadoes28 Oki no Kami
 Veteran Member 2009 Benefactor


Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 1420 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:30 am Post subject: |
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shin no sen wrote: |
I have it. It is a good book for info on political and social structure of the period. John |
Thank you. I'll probably pick it up. I am finishing Varley's Onin War and I just picked up The Culture of Civil War in Kyoto by Mary Elizabeth Berry. Looking forward to it. _________________ http://twitter.com/28loki
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leakbrewergator Ronin
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Joined: 29 Jun 2008 Posts: 236 Location: Tampa
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Tornadoes28 wrote: |
The Culture of Civil War in Kyoto by Mary Elizabeth Berry. Looking forward to it. |
Much like anything else that Berry does, that is a great book! I really enjoyed reading it. I also should tie in well with Varley's book. _________________ A person who knows but a little will put on an air of knowledge. This is a matter of inexperience. When someone knows something well, it will not be seen in his manner. This person is genteel.
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo |
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Tornadoes28 Oki no Kami
 Veteran Member 2009 Benefactor


Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 1420 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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leakbrewergator wrote: |
Tornadoes28 wrote: |
The Culture of Civil War in Kyoto by Mary Elizabeth Berry. Looking forward to it. |
Much like anything else that Berry does, that is a great book! I really enjoyed reading it. I also should tie in well with Varley's book. |
So far it does tie in well. I recommend reading Varley first and then reading Berry. Berry's brief explanation in the 1st chapter of some of the succession disputes is much easier to follow since I read Varley's Onin War first. _________________ http://twitter.com/28loki
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leakbrewergator Ronin
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Joined: 29 Jun 2008 Posts: 236 Location: Tampa
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: |
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Tornadoes28 wrote: |
leakbrewergator wrote: |
Tornadoes28 wrote: |
The Culture of Civil War in Kyoto by Mary Elizabeth Berry. Looking forward to it. |
Much like anything else that Berry does, that is a great book! I really enjoyed reading it. I also should tie in well with Varley's book. |
So far it does tie in well. I recommend reading Varley first and then reading Berry. Berry's brief explanation in the 1st chapter of some of the succession disputes is much easier to follow since I read Varley's Onin War first. |
Yeah, I'm doing it backwards. Unfortunately, I never really had an interest in the Onin War until I read Berry's book. _________________ A person who knows but a little will put on an air of knowledge. This is a matter of inexperience. When someone knows something well, it will not be seen in his manner. This person is genteel.
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo |
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