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Dude
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: masamune Reply with quote
this might be a stupid question, but are there any masamune style sword smiths around? if not are there any left from that period?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I assume your question is asking whether or not there any gendai nihonto smiths similar in style (Soshu Tradition) to Masamune of the Kamakura era?

Honestly, I don't know, but here are several websites and books that may assist you.

Forums
Nihonto Message Board
http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/

Sword Forum International
http://www.swordforum.com/

History
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masamune
http://www.bushidojapaneseswords.com/Sano%20museum1.htm
http://www.universalswordsman.com/Swords-SmithPages/Masamune2006.html

Books
MASAMUNE:
A Genius Swordsmith and His Lineage
http://www.satcho.com/References.htm

The New Generation of Japanese Swordsmiths
http://www.amazon.com/New-Generation-Japanese-Swordsmiths/dp/4770028547/ref=sr_1_1/103-9197034-1583060?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182818619&sr=8-1

The Connoisseurs Book of Japanese Swords
http://www.amazon.com/Connoisseurs-Book-Japanese-Swords/dp/4770020716/ref=sr_1_1/103-9197034-1583060?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182819633&sr=8-1
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Dude
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
wonderful! thank you
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Wo Long
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I saw something on the History channel once that said that the Masamune family is still making swords. That's as much as I know. So, I can't really help you, but the Masamune clan is still around and doing what they do.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wo Long wrote:
I saw something on the History channel once that said that the Masamune family is still making swords. That's as much as I know. So, I can't really help you, but the Masamune clan is still around and doing what they do.


FUD
Not true. Masamune has been dead for almost 650 years and only had one stepson, Sadamune, to follow in his footsteps. Masamune had what was to be known as the Juttetsu or "10 Great Disciples of Masamune" that were greatly influenced in the Soshu tradition, however the Masamune nihonto smith lineage died with Masamune.
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Wo Long
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ranger wrote:
Wo Long wrote:
I saw something on the History channel once that said that the Masamune family is still making swords. That's as much as I know. So, I can't really help you, but the Masamune clan is still around and doing what they do.


FUD
Not true. Masamune has been dead for almost 650 years and only had one stepson, Sadamune, to follow in his footsteps. Masamune had what was to be known as the Juttetsu or "10 Great Disciples of Masamune" that were greatly influenced in the Soshu tradition, however the Masamune nihonto smith lineage died with Masamune.


Hmm. Perhaps the show misconstrued the information. They might've meant simply that his disciples have been passing it down so that his style is still being practiced. I guess I'm not sure what to tell ya. I saw the show a long while ago, so I can't say I know what it was called.
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Tsubame1
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
And Sadamune was adoptive...
I'm not sure Masamune had biological sons too,
but if so surely they didn't take the steps of the
father. Sadamune's Hosho school didn't survive so much and so any continuity Family/swordsmithing tradition has been lost long ago. The disciples were the real heritage Masamune left us, other then their surviving swords.
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Wo Long
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tsubame1 wrote:
And Sadamune was adoptive...
I'm not sure Masamune had biological sons too,
but if so surely they didn't take the steps of the
father. Sadamune's Hosho school didn't survive so much and so any continuity Family/swordsmithing tradition has been lost long ago. The disciples were the real heritage Masamune left us, other then their surviving swords.


Interesting. I really wish I could figure out what show it was that said that. I'd love to rewatch it.
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maikeruart
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I belive there is a Masamune blade still at the springfield Quad, I have to look next time im there.
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Isimaru
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
i belive that there is one at musashiswords.com
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Tsubame1
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Isimaru wrote:
i belive that there is one at musashiswords.com


A real Masamune it's quiet expensive for 59.99 U$...

http://www.musashiswords.com/shop/product.php?productid=8&cat=0&page=1


I can't take it
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Isimaru wrote:
i belive that there is one at musashiswords.com

If you're interested, I also have some beautiful beachfront property in Kansas for sale. Very Happy


Enjoy the scenic Kansas sealife!

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Tsubame1
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
What ? Whales instead of penguins in Kansas ?
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lordameth
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
In swordsmithing as in many Japanese traditional arts, it is quite normal for disciples just as well as blood-relatives to be considered to be carrying on a lineage.

I would not be surprised if there were a smith or two out there who can trace their lineage directly back to Masamune, even if through masters and not fathers.

(I think I've seen the same program Wo Long mentioned...)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
lordameth wrote:
In swordsmithing as in many Japanese traditional arts, it is quite normal for disciples just as well as blood-relatives to be considered to be carrying on a lineage.


In the fifth post down I mention Masamune's Jittetsu or "10 Great Disciples of Masamune". These ten men were not apprentices, but accomplished smiths in their own right that came to study Masamune's techniques. However, Sadamune was the only one (that I am aware of) that succeeded Masamune.

Jittetsu
Rai Kunitsugu
Hasabe Kunishige
Kinju
Kanemitsu
Shizu Kaneuji
Go Yoshihiro
Saeki Norishige
Naotsuna
Chogi
Sa

lordameth wrote:
I would not be surprised if there were a smith or two out there who can trace their lineage directly back to Masamune, even if through masters and not fathers.

Extremely extremely unlikely. From what I can tell, the line was broken with Sadamune. And for argument sake, lets assume what you are saying is true. Such a distinguished lineage would not have gone unnoticed within Japan or throughout the nihonto community. This is almost akin to the Da Vinci Code and the "Priory of Sion".

Now a classic lineage would be the Gassan School, but even in this example there is a break between the Koto smiths and the later Shinshinto smiths that continue on to today.
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lordameth
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ah, I see. Alright. I don't really know anything much about swordsmithing lineages, but was just guessing based on my knowledge of lineages in noh, kabuki, etc.
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Lycaena
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ranger wrote:
Isimaru wrote:
i belive that there is one at musashiswords.com

If you're interested, I also have some beautiful beachfront property in Kansas for sale. Very Happy


Enjoy the scenic Kansas sealife!

Ahh, must be eastern Kansas! Very Happy
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Date Yukiie
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Ahh, must be eastern Kansas!

Yes - where the sign says "Welcome to Kansas" and they demand money so you can get the hell out of the state!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Legitimacy of the claims is *not* something I want to get into but the half remembered questions refer to Yamamura Tsunahiro a Soshu school smith who claims to be the 24th generational descendant of Masamune. This is who was in the history channel show "The Samurai". 正宗孫刀剣鍛冶綱廣

A short internet search shows him as trained by Fukuda Yasuaki.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:02 am    Post subject: Re: masamune Reply with quote
Dude wrote:
this might be a stupid question, but are there any masamune style sword smiths around? if not are there any left from that period?


Dont you mean Muramasa?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: masamune Reply with quote
Toyotomi_Hideyori_rules wrote:
Dude wrote:
this might be a stupid question, but are there any masamune style sword smiths around? if not are there any left from that period?


Dont you mean Muramasa?


For the record, what you've done is the equivalent of asking "Don't you mean Anne Rice?" when someone asks a question about Stephen King. They are BOTH famous for what they do.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: masamune Reply with quote
AJBryant wrote:
Toyotomi_Hideyori_rules wrote:
Dude wrote:
this might be a stupid question, but are there any masamune style sword smiths around? if not are there any left from that period?


Dont you mean Muramasa?


For the record, what you've done is the equivalent of asking "Don't you mean Anne Rice?" when someone asks a question about Stephen King. They are BOTH famous for what they do.


Tony


oh but I was just Checking if he ment the Great smith Muramasa or something.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
No prob, but he meant the great smith Masamune, not the great smith Muramasa. That's why he SAID Masamune. Just Kidding
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
AJBryant wrote:
No prob, but he meant the great smith Masamune, not the great smith Muramasa. That's why he SAID Masamune. Just Kidding



Oh but I thought he ment Date Masamune with out saying Date Masamune's last name sorry I will try not to make the mistake again.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wo Long wrote:
I saw something on the History channel once that said that the Masamune family is still making swords. That's as much as I know. So, I can't really help you, but the Masamune clan is still around and doing what they do.


was it labeled the Samurai I watched that show it was awesome I might buy it so I could teach all my actual non-online friends about samurai
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