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Tatsunoshi
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno wrote:
Tatsunoshi wrote:


The V90 does and so does the G90.


What are the differences? Including price, I don't want to spend much more than $200 if I can get away with it.


Not really sure (since I don't have the G90...only a spare G55 Just Kidding)-I know that the V90 has a dictionary of Historical Chinese Names the G90 doesn't, and one of the G90's Japanese dictionaries is bigger than the V90's. Otherwise, they have the same lineup of dictionaries and the V90 has Chinese speech and (VERY) limited recording/playback. Ayame paid about Y40,000 for the V90, so unless you find a used one, $200 is out. I think the G90 is about $50 less. I'd probably buy the G90 if I knew then what I do now.
The G55 is great, except for what Domer noted about having to scroll through 55 pages. The stylus of the 90 series removes that particular pain.
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Tatsunoshi
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ashigaru wrote:
I am too. Embarassed


My father-in-law is in his middle 80's and tells me he's still learning new kanji all the time. I hope when I'm his age...hell, I just hope I get to his age.

Ashi 'The MAN' garu wrote:
But I'm larnin' HARDCORE, and that's what counts! Wink


HA! What know you of hardcore, dog? My stylus is cleverly concealed in the body of the wordtank, and doubles as an impromptu ninjer weapon when terrorists invade the sacred space of Treasury Computer Crimes. It doesn't get much more hardcore than that!
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno wrote:


I guess I should clarify - even after almost 16 years, sometimes the radical isn't apparent, and it seems to be hit or miss, and for some reason, it seems more hit or miss on the 3000. Also, it bugs me that nearly 100% of the time even though the wordtank has the word I want in the english or Japanese dictionary, it doesn't show up in the jukugo. That bugs the heck out of me - the jukugo should be cross referenced with the english and/or japanese dictionary. Also, there is no flashcard feature, which the old wordtank also had. And lastly, my hugest gripe - I hate that when you jump to a kanji, it puts you on the kanji screen with NO jukugo! WTF is that all about?? It means I have to go to the kanji search screen, and search the kanji again!

I'm just not happy with my purchase. It only cost me $100, but I guess that's what I get looking for a deal. It is good for basic lookup stuff, but I don't like it for my purposes. I spend three times as much time on jim breem's as I do on the wordtank. And the word list is lacking. The sanseido's daily concise has more words. And the lack of the kojien bugs the bejeepers out of me.


Your hatred of this machine makes me feel simultaneously better and worse about owning it. I feel better knowing that my language skills are so underdeveloped that I don't mind the things that kill you about it, but then, upon reflection, I feel worse for the same reason. That's so nuts I'm having a seizure!
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takuan
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
BTW, supposing we ever get around to deciding on the definitive model, where's a good, trustworthy place to buy it online?
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Drakken
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Okey, you lost me with that portable computer stuff. I am not there yet. Shocked

Anyway, a little update :

- I bought three books to begin my learning : An English-Japanese dictionary, a grammar, and a kana-learning workbook. I did not buy anything remotely giving lessons, because beforehand I want to learn kana first and read about the basic grammar structure.

Iwill do exactly what I used to do when I was in school as a kid: Trace every kana dozens of time in a workbook, one by one, until they enter my head and stay there.

Only when I know by heart how to use kana and what their meaning is, that I will begin to search for lessons.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
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I will do exactly what I used to do when I was in school as a kid: Trace every kana dozens of time in a workbook, one by one, until they enter my head and stay there.


That's too laborious. Why not use mnemonics to get that stuff into your head quicker?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
takuan wrote:

That's too laborious. Why not use mnemonics to get that stuff into your head quicker?


I've always loved this method to learn kanji/hirgana/katakana. Got anymore or know of a good site that has a lot of them?
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Obenjo Kusanosuke
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bug,

Takuan is a smart lad indeed. He's been studying the fun and easy way. I learned kana the traditional way and in my weird and creative way, made my own visual associations to remember some of them (don't ask what they were. It wouldn't be appropriate for a public forum Just Kidding ).

The mnemonics that Takuan posted can be found in Kanji Pictographix by Michael Rowley, which contains over 1,000 kanji and kana mnemonics. Takuan's kind, marketing savvy and generous publisher, Stone Bridge Press, put this book out. I bought the book over 10 years ago and still manage to have fun with it.

Stone Bridge has published Takuan's awesome books Stray Dogs and Lone Wolves- a definitive guide to samurai film (volume 2 is on the way) as well as his tour of Asian horror and dark cinema, Asia Shock. As Stone Bridge does such a great marketing job for its stable of writers Rolling Eyes , I have to occassionally come out and pitch the wares! But believe me, these books are great! I'm not only a spokesman, but a reader! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Obenjo,

Fantastic! I'll have to start looking for Kanji Pictographix. One of the the old JTB books, that I have, has pictographic origins of kanji. I've always found it handy, but there aren't many kanji in it.

I've been an avid reader and pimp of Stray Dogs and Lone Wolves for quite some time. I'm really looking forward to volume 2.
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Drakken
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
takuan wrote:
Drakken wrote:
I will do exactly what I used to do when I was in school as a kid: Trace every kana dozens of time in a workbook, one by one, until they enter my head and stay there.


That's too laborious. Why not use mnemonics to get that stuff into your head quicker?



Since French is my first language, I create my own mnemonics to retain them in my memories. However, I'll definitely search for mnemonics when I reach the learning of kanji. My brain just retains quicker when I write something repeatedly on a piece of paper.

However, I am left-handed. So writing kana with my left hand is very hard for my wrist... Embarassed
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Drakken wrote:

However, I am left-handed. So writing kana with my left hand is very hard for my wrist... Embarassed


You should learn some wrist exercises. Oh BRICK! I care

[BTW, Bug and Obenjo, thanks for the love Lusty ]
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Drakken
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
takuan wrote:
Drakken wrote:

However, I am left-handed. So writing kana with my left hand is very hard for my wrist... Embarassed


You should learn some wrist exercises. Oh BRICK! I care ]


Laughing

You right-handed chauvinist pig, you! Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
No Drakken, you're cool, I dig you lefties. The little green "Jerkin' Joe" was for Brick, not you. Cool

Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote:
I'm not only a spokesman, but a reader! Very Happy


Hey, you snagged that line from the Hair Club for Men! Dig my 'fro
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
takuan wrote:
No Drakken, you're cool, I dig you lefties. The little green "Jerkin' Joe" was for Brick, not you. Cool


Well, ya know, the Brickster ain't much on conductin' self-guided tours. If the situation ever looks that bleak, Soapland is just a swallow's flight away from the studio.
I do hear that that the new Ninjernation (TM) website has detailed instructions for catchin' the next boat to Senzurijima, for those who are into that sort of thing.

Hey, and the Brickster's also a big fan of Tacky's two books. Even though he somehow managed to neglect includin' any of my meisterworks of low budget schlock.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
You know I kid the the Brickster ... with love Daydreaming
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
takuan wrote:
You know I kid the the Brickster ... with love Daydreaming


The feelin' is mutual-in a manly, hetero kinda way!
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Ashigaru
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tatsunoshi wrote:
HA! What know you of hardcore, dog? My stylus is cleverly concealed in the body of the wordtank, and doubles as an impromptu ninjer weapon when terrorists invade the sacred space of Treasury Computer Crimes. It doesn't get much more hardcore than that!


Double ha! Your reliance on weapons marks you as a hopeless amateur! Watch as I fend off attackers empty-handed, all the while looking up obscure kanji in the old school way! See? Uchiyama Rina--who, as Akemi, was the best part of the Taiga "Musashi"--is powerless before me!
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Tatsunoshi
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ashigaru wrote:
Uchiyama Rina--who, as Akemi, was the best part of the Taiga "Musashi"!


Your great wisdom in this matter forces me to concede defeat!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ashigaru wrote:
all the while looking up obscure kanji in the old school way!


Might I ask your method? Kodansha dictionary, count strokes, etc.?
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Obenjo Kusanosuke
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
takuan wrote:
Ashigaru wrote:
all the while looking up obscure kanji in the old school way!


Might I ask your method? Kodansha dictionary, count strokes, etc.?
Rolling Eyes Silly priest! Don't you know that only Nagaeyari "counts" strokes! Shocked Just Kidding

Just joking Nagaeyari, actually, most of us have counted strokes at one point or still do when it concerns kanji. This is the traditional way to look up kanji. You can count the total amount of strokes in the character, or you can count up the strokes in the "radical" and then search from there. Some of the more advanced versions of the Canon Wordtanks have this "stroke total" look-up option. As my current Think Wordtank is one of the cheaper versions, and I need to go "manual" for looking up a kanji character, I always go with my stalwart and massive hardcover version of Nelson's kanji dictionary. You can order it from Amazon and they have it for a pretty good price.


Fortunately, since I bought that beast, a smaller and much more portable soft-cover version has appeared on the market called creatively enough, The Compact New Nelson Japanese-English Character Dictionary. The "baby" Nelson dictionary is abridged but contains 3,068 main-entry characters--that's basically enough!
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks. I've been meaning to replace the kanji dictionary that I lost some time during the 7 moves over the past 15 years. I think I'll pick that up. The compact version is only $21; although $45 isn't a bad price for the hard cover.

...Bug would love Kanji Pictographix for $14. Thanks Takuan & Obenjo. Very Happy



and for $6, Kana Pictographix.
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Obenjo Kusanosuke
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just one thing--if you buy the Kanji Pict-o-Graphix, book, you don't need the kana book, because all the kana mnemonics are included in the kanji book.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote:
Just one thing--if you buy the Kanji Pict-o-Graphix, book, you don't need the kana book, because all the kana mnemonics are included in the kanji book.


Thanks, I had no idea that the Kanji Pict-o-Graphix contained the kana stuff as well. You just saved us some money. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hey all,

There is another decent book out there called Remembering the Kanji by James Heisig. The major drawback to the book is that he does not cover the pronunciations. However the way he explains his method of remembering their meanings is rather interesting and may prove to be useful.
A large portion of his first book can be found here:

http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/miscPublications/pdf/RK4/RK4-00.pdf


平和、

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
takuan wrote:
Might I ask your method? Kodansha dictionary, count strokes, etc.?


Obenjo's description was accurate. Japanese paper dictionaries are generally organized by radical and number of strokes. Looking kanji up is tedious and difficult at first--it's not always easy to identify the radical, and sometimes what looks like a single stroke is actually two, and vice-versa--but it gets easier with time. With practice you'll get better about identifying radicals (which comes in handy on standardized kanji tests, if you care about that sort of thing) and after awhile you'll be able to determine the number of strokes at a glance.

Stylus entry is quick and easy, but (IMO) relying on it too much hinders the development of the skills mentioned above. That might not be a problem if you just want to determine the meaning right away and aren't worried about the fiddly mechanics of how kanji are put together and don't expect to have to use paper dictionaries to look up obscure, archaic kanji.

On a different (mostly unrelated) note, the Kanji Pict-o-Graphix book is a good one. We used it in my high school courses and I still remember individual examples, more than a decade later.
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