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horou and sashimono construction

 
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Totoro893
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:58 am    Post subject: horou and sashimono construction Reply with quote
Hi all,

I am interested in fashioning either a horou or a sashimono for a suit of replica armor I recently purchased. I've tried my best to find examples of their frames on the web, but haven't found any images (or better yet, instructions) that show the construction (specifically the joints) in detail. I was hoping someone could help me out with the following:

1. Does someone have specs or close up images of a real horou's framework (without the fabric)? How were the frame rods joined together and to the main support pole? I found this site (in German), but the image is a really small illustration...
http://www.tenshukaku.de/horo.htm

2. Did horou come in other shapes other than the circular "balloon?" I know sashimono had many variations (1, 2, 3 flags, trees, etc.)...has anyone ever heard of a "kawari" horou, or were there other "standard" shapes of the actual framework itself (perhaps oblong, winglike, etc.)?

3. With sashimono, what sort of joining technique was used? I've been drooling over evalerio's illustrations, and it seems the smaller cross-pole goes into a hole in the larger support pole? Was it then secured with a peg, or some sort of adhesive?

Any insight anyone has into this would be much appreciated!
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Toyotomi_Hideyori_rules
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: horou and sashimono construction Reply with quote
Totoro893 wrote:
Hi all,

I am interested in fashioning either a horou or a sashimono for a suit of replica armor I recently purchased. I've tried my best to find examples of their frames on the web, but haven't found any images (or better yet, instructions) that show the construction (specifically the joints) in detail. I was hoping someone could help me out with the following:

1. Does someone have specs or close up images of a real horou's framework (without the fabric)? How were the frame rods joined together and to the main support pole? I found this site (in German), but the image is a really small illustration...
http://www.tenshukaku.de/horo.htm

2. Did horou come in other shapes other than the circular "balloon?" I know sashimono had many variations (1, 2, 3 flags, trees, etc.)...has anyone ever heard of a "kawari" horou, or were there other "standard" shapes of the actual framework itself (perhaps oblong, winglike, etc.)?

3. With sashimono, what sort of joining technique was used? I've been drooling over evalerio's illustrations, and it seems the smaller cross-pole goes into a hole in the larger support pole? Was it then secured with a peg, or some sort of adhesive?

Any insight anyone has into this would be much appreciated!


Try www,wikipedia.org
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AJBryant
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll post some images tomorrow (I have to find 'em and scan 'em in).

The original horo was rectangular -- it was essentially a cloak attached at the shoulders and the waist. When one rode fast, it billowed out looking "balloon like" at the back. In the sengoku period, they tried to "recreate" that billow but didn't realize that it was just a cloak, so they made a framework to make the thing artificially balloon out.
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Totoro893
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Thanks! Reply with quote
Mr. Bryant,

Thank you so much (for your response and for the Nihon Katchu Seisakuben - I find myself using it quite often)! Any sort of reference material you could provide would be great (and please, take your time)!


And for the record, Toyotomi, I have definitely been on wikipedia, as well as the other SCA forums. I have studied Jo Anseeuw's gorgeous photos of Soma Noma-Oi, and have gone as far as looking through images of horogaya (mosquito nets) in hopes that they would lend me some insight into the construction aspect of the horou. If you could direct me to the wikipedia article that provides detailed images of the framework and joints, as requested in my original post, I would be indebted to you.

"The framework or oikago holding the cloak stiff, like a balloon off the warrior's back, varied greatly, but generally it involved a combination of fastening cords and, later, a staff." (from wiki) doesn't really help me recreate one...

I don't want anyone here thinking I've started this thread because I'm lazy or incapable of performing simple web searches. There just aren't any "how-to" resources for horou or sashimono on this wacky world wide web we are weaving, and perhaps this may be valuable to someone else out there...
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ltdomer98
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Totoro--

Don't worry yourself. Your question shows that you've done research and are asking for legit help. Some people's answers show the opposite. Welcome aboard, and Tony's the man (as you well know).
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Totoro893
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for the support, ltdomer, and for all your contributions to the forum, as well! It's surreal being able to interact with you all, after reading your posts for so long...it's better than meeting a movie star! Very Happy

If I could stop giggling like a schoolgirl long enough to get back on topic, I could post this additional question about sashimono-creation:

If I were to attempt to make a multiflag sashimono, let's say with 3 flags like the beautifully rendered "Niwa Ashigaru" illustration that evalerio made in the History forum, would I need a special 3 holed kattari, or do the flags branch above the kattari? And, of course, how were those two outer poles joined to the main pole? Lashing? Actual joints? Or is "whatever works" the best answer?

Thanks!
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Toyotomi_Hideyori_rules
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
Totoro--

Don't worry yourself. Your question shows that you've done research and are asking for legit help. Some people's answers show the opposite. Welcome aboard, and Tony's the man (as you well know).



Right On I agree with itdomer
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