Register :: Log in :: Profile   


bugei jûhappan, the eighteen martial arts

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // Martial Arts
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Akaguma
Kibamusha
Kibamusha
Veteran Member



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 633
Location: Strasbourg, France

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:01 pm    Post subject: bugei jûhappan, the eighteen martial arts Reply with quote
Traditionally, and ideally, a bushi worthy of the name is supposed to be proficient in eighteen martial arts designed as bugei jûhappan 武芸十八般

Those eighteen martial arts are :

kyû-jutsu 弓術 archery
ba-jutsu 馬術 / kiba-jutsu 騎馬術 equitation
sô-jutsu 槍術 art of spear (yari 槍)
ken-jutsu 剣術 swordsmanship
sui-jutsu 水術 / suiei-jutsu 水泳術 swimming
battô-jutsu 抜刀術 / iai-jutsu 居合術 art of drawing a sword
tantô-jutsu 短刀術 art of dagger
jitte-jutsu 十手術 art of jitte
shuriken-jutsu 手裏剣術 ( 銑鋧術 / 手利釼術 ) art of throwing weapons
fukumibari-jutsu 含針術 art of blown needles
naginata-jutsu 薙刀術 art of halberd
hô-jutsu 砲術 art of firearms
torite-jutsu 捕手術 art of binding
jû-jutsu 柔術 art of suppleness
bô-jutsu 棒術 art of staff
kusarigama-jutsu 鎖鎌術 art of chain and sickle
mojiri-jutsu 錑術 (ou rui-jutsu) art of "sleeve entangler" (sode-garami 袖搦 or mojiri 錑)
shinobi-jutsu 隠形術 / 忍術 art of stealthiness

Of course this list can change according to periods and schools.
So other martial arts can appear in this list such as

jô-jutsu 杖術 art of cane
tessen-jutsu 鉄扇術 art of ironfan
kanamuchi-jutsu 鉄鞭術 art of ironstick
fundôsa-jutsu 分銅鎖術 art of weighed chain
sasumata-jutsu 刺又術 art of "man-catcher"
and so on...

Just to say that we are far away from the cliché of the honourable samurai who would never humble himself with using shuriken, kusarigama, firearms, or other so-called treacherous weapon. Even if it may only be an ideal list, it seems that having samurai proficient in any kind of weapons or techniques (even shinobi !) was far than shocking.
As long as it was an efficient technique, it was adopted by the bushi.
_________________
福は内、鬼も内、悪魔は外!


Last edited by Akaguma on Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:46 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ashigaru
Wakasa no Kami
Wakasa no Kami



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 1879
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just to clarify, "bugei juuhappan" is basically just a general term equivalent to "the Martial Arts." Bushi were ideally adept with a variety of weapons and techniques, but they didn't have an eighteen class curriculum or anything. You could be an accomplished samurai and not have any training in half of this list, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a guy who really had training in every area.

Language-wise, "bugei juuhappan" is a bit like the "Yaoyorozu" (literally the "eight million gods," but in reality just "the gods"); both specify a number but shouldn't really be taken literally. You could say 彼は武芸十八般を熟知している ("He is well acquainted with the Eighteen Martial Arts"), but that really means "he is an accomplished fighter" and not that he was necessarily an expert at blowguns and lassoes, etc.

I realize the point of Akaguma's post was to point out that the idea of samurai-only fighting styles and ninja-only techniques is erroneous (and he's right); I'm just mentioning this in an effort to head off any possible confusion. "Traditionally, and ideally, a bushi worthy of the name is supposed to be proficient in eighteen martial arts" strikes me as a bit of an overstatement.
_________________
Meditate upon exile, torture, wars, diseases, shipwreck, so that you may not be a novice to any misfortune.
- Seneca
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ltdomer98
Daijo Daijin
Daijo Daijin
Veteran Member



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 5456
Location: Washington (the one with all the politicians)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Speaking as someone in the military, I'm sure much of a samurai's "training" in some of these, if done at all, would be closer to a familiarization than actually becoming an expert in every possible skill. For example, today all soldiers are supposed to learn "water survival"; this includes everything from treading water to swimming distance in full gear to include helmet, web gear, ruck sack, and rifle. My last unit was the only unit where I've ever done that more than once--it's supposed to be trained, but if anyone does anything more than get "familiar" with it, I'd be very surprised. (SF or Rangers excepted, of course).

As it is, obvious things like shooting a rifle aren't a daily thing; the US Army requires you to qualify with your personal weapon (rifle, pistol, whatever) twice a year. It used to be once a year until about 2 years ago. All soldiers are supposed to be trained on how to use their gas mask and protective gear against bio or chem attack; the requirement is 4 hours in the gear a year. 4 hours....that's really not that much. Yet that's what supposedly "trains" you.

The point is, while it's nice to have this noble image of the samurai training vigorously on all of these disciplines for 12 hours a day, it simply didn't happen. If it did, when would a samurai have time to administer his fief? Study? Heck, eat? Of course a samurai would focus on battlefield necessities--his bread and butter, like yari or sword or whatever, and probably didn't spend more than a "familiarization" on anything like jitte-jutsu.
_________________
Bring it on, laddie 'Domer
The Sengoku Field Manual Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Baian
Ashigaru Kumigashira
Ashigaru Kumigashira
Veteran Member



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 425
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:

The point is, while it's nice to have this noble image of the samurai training vigorously on all of these disciplines for 12 hours a day, it simply didn't happen. If it did, when would a samurai have time to administer his fief? Study? Heck, eat? Of course a samurai would focus on battlefield necessities--his bread and butter, like yari or sword or whatever, and probably didn't spend more than a "familiarization" on anything like jitte-jutsu.


While I understand what you mean, I think you are missing something.
See, in bujutsu "one movement is all movement". What I mean is that there are a basic "set" of movements used for every discipline. Practicing those key basics will open the door for any weapon.

Basically, how you will transfer you weight, align your bone structure, move your feet (etc) when you punch, is the same thing as if you would be holding a sword, a spear, and so forth.

So if you can master the basics, you get the rest fairly well. After that, it's a bit of training with all those weapons on a regular basis (while still practicing the basics). It's not as if you have to forsaken everything in your life.

I hope this made sense.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ltdomer98
Daijo Daijin
Daijo Daijin
Veteran Member



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 5456
Location: Washington (the one with all the politicians)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Baian wrote:
See, in bujutsu "one movement is all movement". What I mean is that there are a basic "set" of movements used for every discipline. Practicing those key basics will open the door for any weapon.

So if you can master the basics, you get the rest fairly well. After that, it's a bit of training with all those weapons on a regular basis (while still practicing the basics).


And the fundamentals of shooting a firearm are the same whether you're shooting an M-16 rifle, a M9 9mm pistol, or anything else. That's besides the point. But, to sum up, what you're saying is that you have a basis in one thing, and that then helps you "familiarize" yourself with other things.

How is that contradictory to what I said?

And please explain to me how normal, everyday training with a sword prepares you to master the "art of blowing needles"?

Quote:
It's not as if you have to forsaken everything in your life.


That is, however, the image that is conveyed by the concept of having "18 martial arts" and Akaguma's statement that "Traditionally, and ideally, a bushi worthy of the name is supposed to be proficient in eighteen martial arts designed as bugei jûhappan 武芸十八般".

I mean no disrespect to Akaguma, but that sentence sounds like some pretentious martial arts BS you'd find in a copy of Black Belt Monthly. Ashigaru is correct--there wasn't a curricula of 18 arts, and first period of Samurai School each day was dedicated to yari, and Joe Samurai got to take Kusari-gama as an elective his senior year...(I'd sign up for the shinobi-jutsu class, and skip school--my excuse? I was there, but "invisible".)

I understand that you, and Akaguma, realize that. However, not everyone who's going to read your posts does. I would argue that it would also depend on the place, time, and social context of the particular samurai in question; an ashigaru in the spear corps likely wouldn't be spending ANY time on the "art of blown needles" (really, would ANYONE be spending time on that? Seriously, like outside of movies or ninja novels?). He'd be practicing his individual and group spear techniques, so he could do his job on the battlefield. He'd also likely spend a little time on the sword, because he'd have one, and maybe crosstrain on a teppou if the opportunity arose.

His daimyo's son, however, would be likely working on horsemanship, swimming, iai, naginata perhaps, and a much wider range of individual skills. I'll grant that this training would start at a very very early age, unlike the modern Army which starts training someone at age 17 at the earliest. However, to through this out there and say "Bam--here's the list of what every samurai, if were a true samurai, studied" is dangerous.

I mean--the art of blown needles? Come on. Kusari-gama? Outside of the dude who beat Musashi with it (the guy who invented it, didn't he?) and some copycat ninja wannabes, who used that? Are we really willing to put forth that it was part of some Canon that "samurai" studied? Doubtful.

"Sleeve-entangler"? Sure, if you were a doshin in the Edo period--much like cops today learn to use a police baton. Why would a Muromachi footsoldier be messing with one of those?

It was a valiant martial arts effort to explain that "all bujutsu is one" in terms of fundamentals. Thanks for that. But it's completely beside the point, and immaterial to my argument. I still posit that your average samurai spent much of his time working with his particular weapon that he'd take to the battlefield, and probably a few others he may be expected to know well enough to handle, should the need arise. The idea of a "list" of skills the samurai needed to get checked off is just silly. Again--Ashigaru's got it right. The "18" doesn't really mean there were 18 arts a samurai had to master. It's a synonym for "all of them".
_________________
Bring it on, laddie 'Domer
The Sengoku Field Manual Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Akaguma
Kibamusha
Kibamusha
Veteran Member



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 633
Location: Strasbourg, France

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK... I may have been gone a bit to far when saying "proficient in". "familiar with", just like ltdomer said, is closer to reality.Embarassed . And maybe this list was only for bugeisha who devote their time to their trainings in a multitude of martial arts.

I understand that here "eighteen" is a synonym of "numerous". Actually, I bumped so many time in this "eighteen item list" that I wanted to write something about it.

What ? Ashigaru didn't train themselveves to blow needles...? What do you think they did with their toothpicks after lunch ? Wink

Lucky you, I haven't wrote the chinese equivalent of this list... not yet ! Wink
_________________
福は内、鬼も内、悪魔は外!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kuseru Satsujin
Priest
Priest
Veteran Member



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Akaguma wrote:
Lucky you, I haven't wrote the chinese equivalent of this list... not yet ! Wink


What, you mean the Shi Ba Ban Wu Qi [十八般武器]?

Spring & Autumn Period and Warring States Period (772-222 B.C.):
Spear (Qiang) [槍]
Halberd (Ji) [戟]
Long Rod (Gun) [棍]
Iron Bar (Tie)[鐵]
Trident (Cha) [叉]
Horse Fork (Tang) [鏜]
Hook (Gou) [鉤]
Eighteen-Chi Tapered Rod (Shuo)[槊]
Ring (Huan) [擐 according to source, 鐶 more likely]
Saber (Dao) [刀]
Sword (Jian) [劍]
Crutches (Guai) [柺]
Axe (Fu)[斧]
Whip (Bian) [鞭]
Sai (Chai) [釵]
Hammer (Chui) [鎚]
Short Staff/Club (Bang) [棒]
Pestle (Chu) [杵]

Han Dynasty (206 B.C.-220 A.D.):
Spear (Qiang) [槍]
Halberd (Ji) [戟]
Trident (Cha) [叉]
Hook (Gou) [鉤]
Saber (Dao) [刀]
Sword (Jian) [劍]
Crutches (Guai) [柺]
Axe (Fu)[斧]
Whip (Bian) [鞭]
Sai (Chai) [釵]
Hammer (Chui) [鎚]
Short Staff/Club (Bang) [棒]
Bow and Arrow (Gong Jian) [弓箭]
Long-Handled Battle Axe (Yue) [鉞]
Long-Handled Claw (Zhua) [抓]
Sickle (Lian) [鐮]
Piercing Spear (Jue) [鈌]
Battle Strategy (Bing Fa) [兵法]

Song Dynasty (960-1280 A.D.)
Spear (Qiang) [槍]
Halberd (Ji) [戟]
Saber (Dao) [刀]
Sword (Jian) [劍]
Axe (Fu)[斧]
Whip (Bian) [鞭]
Sai (Chai) [釵]
Hammer (Chui) [鎚]
Short Staff/Club (Bang) [棒]
Bow and Arrow (Gong Jian) [弓箭]
Long-Handled Battle Axe (Yue) [鉞]
Long-Handled Claw (Zhua) [抓]
Sickle (Lian) [鐮]
Crossbow (Nu) [弩]
Lance (Mao) [矛]
Shield (Dun) [盾]
Harrow/Rake (Ba) [耙]
Flat-Head Halberd (Ge) [戈]
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Baian
Ashigaru Kumigashira
Ashigaru Kumigashira
Veteran Member



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 425
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:

And the fundamentals of shooting a firearm are the same whether you're shooting an M-16 rifle, a M9 9mm pistol, or anything else. That's besides the point. But, to sum up, what you're saying is that you have a basis in one thing, and that then helps you "familiarize" yourself with other things.

How is that contradictory to what I said?

And please explain to me how normal, everyday training with a sword prepares you to master the "art of blowing needles"?


I wasn't necessarily looking at the above list. I should have been clearer. It's my fault. Blowing needles is pointless, except in a precise field.
I was more referring to what's going on in the battlefield (katana, yari, naginata, etc.).

Quote:
The point is, while it's nice to have this noble image of the samurai training vigorously on all of these disciplines for 12 hours a day, it simply didn't happen. If it did, when would a samurai have time to administer his fief? Study? Heck, eat?


That's mostly what I was referring to with my explanation. The time spent.
So yes, I agree with you with pretty much all that was said. I just wanted to add into that. That's why I said "missing something" and not "you got that wrong". Smile

I also agree with you that you need to be looking at many things: class, rank, age, etc. I'm in agreement that the average ashigaru didn't bother to train as much as the son of daimyo let's say. Experience, according that you survive long enough, is the best teacher in some cases.

Sorry about the confusion. Seems I got you a bit ticked off.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ltdomer98
Daijo Daijin
Daijo Daijin
Veteran Member



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 5456
Location: Washington (the one with all the politicians)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Baian wrote:
Sorry about the confusion. Seems I got you a bit ticked off.


No, it's just that any martial artsy "All samurai did this, if they were *TRUE* samurai" crap is a hot button for me. I know you didn't quite intend it this way, but your "see, Bujutsu is..." came across as very "Let's break this down for the non-martial artist, because he just doesn't understand the Way"...much like Akaguma's statement above sounded similarly "martial artsy".

I studied both tae kwon do and karate for 6 years. I've trained in grappling and hand to hand combat techniques in the military. I've got enough experience with it to understand that the fundamentals of most martial arts are the same. The problem, as I said, is that many people who come here, especially to *THIS* section, don't understand that. If you say "All samurai studied AND WERE EXPERTS in these 18 arts" then especially because it comes from *THIS* board, they'll beleive it. And they'll go around proclaiming that to be a *TRUE* samurai, one must have studied blow darts, because they saw it on a *reputable* site.


Let me add something to the quote you had issue with:

Quote:
The point is, while it's nice to have this noble image of the samurai training vigorously on all of these disciplines for 12 hours a day, it simply didn't happen. If it did, when would a samurai have time to administer his fief? Study? Heck, eat?


THAT is the part that should be emphasized. I understand your point. However, the *IMAGE* given by the original post is that the samurai had to be *EXPERT* in all of these tasks. You don't become an *EXPERT* by learning one and then cross-training a little. You become "familiar". Aside from some of the silly things on that list that just appear to be there so they could get it up to 18 (which I suppose comes from the Classical Chinese, and therefore was a benchmark they felt they needed to replicate), becoming an *expert* in half of those things would be a significant challenge to say the least, even not taking into account garrison/administrative tasks to be accomplished. It's doubtful that anyone could do it. To say it's the "ideal" is a bit misinformative; while Akaguma or whomever may mean it as "the ideal, perfect, not-attainable standard that no one in reality comes close to", the way it's written most would take it to mean "ideally, every samurai knew all these, and if they didn't, they weren't really a samurai".

No, no hard feelings--as I said it's a hot button, and when someone tell me I'm "missing something" and then doesn't actually make an argument *against* what I said, I'm gonna bite. Wink
_________________
Bring it on, laddie 'Domer
The Sengoku Field Manual Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Akaguma
Kibamusha
Kibamusha
Veteran Member



Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 633
Location: Strasbourg, France

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
To settle things, the original sentence was
Quote:
武士が平素心得て練習すべき武芸十八種。わが国では一般に弓術・[]などをいう。

(from 日本風俗史辞典)

Kuseru Satsujin wrote:
What, you mean the Shi Ba Ban Wu Qi [十八般武器]?

Wow, Satsujin... you're too fast for me !Wink

Here is the list I had found (Actually I had written this list on a french site a while ago... I just had to translate it !)


Traditionnal list of the jiuchang jiuduan 九長九短 (nine long ones nine short ones)


nine long ones:
槍 (枪) qiang spear
gun pole (among them : shuangjiegun 双节棍 (nunchaku) and the sanjiegun 三节棍 (three-section-nunchaku))
鉞 (钺) yue battleaxe
叉/杈 cha pitchfork
鐺 (镋) dang chain
鉤 (钩) gou hooked sword
shuo halberd
ji halberd
環 (环) huan ring

nine short ones :
dao sabre
劍 (剑) jian sword
bian whip, weighed rope
鑭 (锏) jian ironbar
拐/柺 guai crutches, tonfâ
fu hand axe
bang staff
zhui or 锤 chui mallet, warhammer, mace
chu pestle

In the Shuihuzhuan 水滸傳 (水浒传) "Water Margin" (or "Outlaws of the Marsh" or "All Men Are Brothers"),14th century, those eighteen weapons are :
mao halberd
chui mallet
gong bow
nu crossbow
銃 (铳) chong spear, axe, or huochong 火铳 bamboo-cannon
bian whip, crop or weighed rope
鑭 (锏) jian iron bar
劍 (剑) jian sword
鏈 (链) lian chain
撾 (挝) zhua studded mace
fu hand axe
鉞 (钺) yue battle-axe
ge halberd
ji halberd
pai shield
bang staff
槍 (枪) qiang spear
cha pitchfork, trident (扒, 朳 ba) rake

In Wuzazu 五雜俎 (五杂俎) "Investigations on the five categories of things’"by Xie Zhaozhe 谢肇淛 (谢肇浙)(16th-17th c.) :
 
gong bow
nu crossbow
槍 (枪) qiang spear
dao sabre
劍 (剑) jian sword
mao halberd
dun shield
fu hand-axe
鉞 (钺) yue battle-axe
ji halberd
bian whip, crop, or weighed rope
鑭 (简) jian iron bar
gao (挝) zhua studded mace
shu pole (= 棍 gun)
cha pitchfork
耙頭 batou (把 ba) rake, harrow
綿繩套索 (绵绳套索) miansheng taosuo grapple
白打 baida bare hand fighting

In the Jianhuji 堅瓠集 "The Hard Gourd Collections" by Chu Renhuo 褚人獲 (17th c.) :
gong bow
nu crossbow
槍 (枪) qiang spear
dao sabre
劍 (剑) jian sword
mao halberd
dun shield
fu hand-axe
鉞 (钺) yue battle-axe
bian whip, crop, or weighed rope
鑭 (简) jian iron bar
撾 (挝) zhua studded mace
shu pole (= 棍 gun)
cha pitchfork
把頭 batou rake
綿繩套 (绵绳套) miansheng tao grapple
zhui (锤 chui) war-hammer, mace
白打 baida bare hand fighting

In the Jianhuji-Xuji 堅瓠集·續集 "The Hard Gourd Collections, the sequel" still by Chu Renhuo 褚人獲 :
mao halberd
zhui (锤 chui) war-hammer
gong bow
nu crossbow
銃 (铳) chong bamboo-cannon
bian whip, crop, or weighed rope
鑭 (锏) jian iron bar
劍 (剑) jian sword
鏈 (链) lian chain
撾 (挝) zhua studded mace
fu hand-axe
鉞 (钺) yue battle-axe
ge halberd
ji halberd
pai shield
bang staff
槍 (枪) qiong spear
cha pitchfork, trident (扒 ba) rake

And a last list I found on this site :
dao sabre
槍 (枪) qiang spear
劍 (剑) jian sword
ji halberd
fu battle-axe
鉞 (钺) yue crescent shaped hand-axe
gou hooked sword
cha pitchfork, trident
bian whip, crop
jian iron bar
chui hammer, mace
撾 (挝) zhua studded mace
钂 (镋) tang hallebarde
gun pole
shuo halberd
bang staff
guai crutch, tonfâ
流星 liuxing "meteor" weighed rope


sources :
wikipedia
兵器的設定
十八般兵器概說
_________________
福は内、鬼も内、悪魔は外!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Baian
Ashigaru Kumigashira
Ashigaru Kumigashira
Veteran Member



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 425
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:


No, no hard feelings--as I said it's a hot button, and when someone tell me I'm "missing something" and then doesn't actually make an argument *against* what I said, I'm gonna bite. Wink


It's all good then. I'll be careful how I "put out" my words.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // Martial Arts All times are GMT - 10 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Help the Samurai Archives




alexisRed v1.2 // Theme Created By: Andrew Charron // Samuraized By: Aaron Rister

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group