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mayumi hokao
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:50 am    Post subject: Saga Ken bujutsu Reply with quote
Dear all

I recently posted on here and was kindly answered as with regards to the shingetsu muso yanagi ryu

I am trying to find as much aboth the ryuha of Saga ken (Nagasaki and Fukuoka ) as possible

I came accross three names Nanban ryu, Kuroda ryu and Kyushin ryu

Does anyone have infomation on these three schools, if they were in the prefectures listed above, what were they known for?

Also were there any other school being taught in this prefecture (Saga)

and was Shingetsu Muso Yangi ryu known for anything special?

I wait in interest

mayumi
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JLBadgley
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Any more information on them? I found several schools with those names, but it would be useful to know more. For instance, what are they supposed to teach? Iai? Hojutsu? Yawara? Also, any kanji for the names?

-Josh
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Kogusoku
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kyushu had and still does have a large amount of ryugi bujutsu still extant.

Kyushin-ryu Kumi Uchi Jujutsu 扱心流組討柔術 is no longer extant. The last soke of that ryuha died in of a certain illness during the late 1990's and the tradition was unfortunately not passed on to his son. It was based in Kumamoto (Higo No kuni) and had a jujutsu, kenjutsu and iaijutsu syllabus as far as I know.

Kuroda-ryu 黒田流 is listed in the Bugei ryuha daijiten as being a ninjutsu school. That school is also apparently no longer extant. The last licence holder was a Matsuo Kenpu he was a known budoka back in the 1950's and 1960's in Kanto for repopularizing budo after the SCAP post-war ban was lifted. He was a 10th dan in Muso Shinden-ryu under Nakayama Hakudo and was also licenced in a number of other koryu ryuha.

Shin Getsu Muso Yanagi-ryu was the Otome-ryu for the Nabeshima-han as I stated in another thread on this forum.

For Kuroda-han (Fukuoka & Oita prefectures), you have quite a lot of koryu out there. Sosuishi-ryu, Jigo Tenshin-ryu, Ise Jitoku Tenshin-ryu, Kuroda-handen Yagyu Shinkage-ryu, Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu and a few more.
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Last edited by Kogusoku on Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Akaguma
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
According to J-Wikipedia, there is a hôjutsu 砲術 school named Nanban-ryû 南蛮流, which is another name of Seki-ryû 関流, founded by 関之信 (SEKI Yukinobu), or also SEKI Hachizaemon 関八左衛門, retainer of Uesugi family.
Obviously, it may not be the one you're looking for, since this one does not seem to be in Saga.


In a site about ninjutsu, I've found a ryûha based in Nagasaki, called Nanban-ryû 南蛮流, which teaches kajutsu 火術.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mayumi,

Are you trying to find out about Kyushu budo specifically?

Could you explain what you want to know in a little more detail please?

Thanks.
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mayumi hokao
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Saga Reply with quote
Dear MR Delaney

My family were from Saga (I have lived abroad most of my early teens to adult life now)and I am now as an adult returning to saga and I have a grown a real interest in my parents ken and it's history, especially the Kobujutsu.

Why? mmmmm, I think I started to read a lot about Nagasaki, my aunty still lives there and how the NAbeshima family were in charge of protectijg the coast and boarders which made that family intergrlal. I then thought found they did Shingetsu Muso YAnagi ryu and thought wow I wonder what this art has that was so speacial for a big family to choose it.

Now, I have become more and more interested in the arts thatw ere taught in this area, which also is including Fukuoka.

I would love to train in an authentic Koryu from this area and I hope to do so one day.

These are the reasons why.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my questions

mayumi
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mayumi hokao
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Also I have a reasonable level of kendo and shotaokan which I have trained in so I would love to know the differences especially between the shingetsu muso yanagi ryu.

Perhaps what was it used for? Who used it?
Did it have any focus which derived from it's geographical location, ie. nagasaki port, port defence, or coastal defence, inteliggence gathering, or was it more of a family body gaurd style. I saw Takagi yoshin ryu was one of it's forebearer and I read this school is considered a body gaurd school.

I think these are the questions that have been rolling aound my head. Really I want to understand Shingetsu muso yanagi ryu and other Saga ken koryu and their placement in Saga and how they have impacted upon Saga or Saga Imapacted upon them. What exists know and what doesn't. I know there may be too much to answer simpley here, but I tried to be as honest as possibe and give you as much info as possible so you could undertsand

Mayumi
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mayumi,

Shingetsu Muso Yanagi-ryu bujutsu is no longer taught in Saga-Ken. The current soke, Kano Takehiko lives and teaches in Amagasaki-shi, Hyogo-Ken.

In Kyushu, there's a lot of bujutsu ryuha still extant. All have rich histories and traditions.

Kendo is a sport oriented budo, using a point system and is restricted to specific targets (Men-do-kote-tsuki) the te-no-uchi and kiri-kata is different from koryu bujutsu in the fact that it's used to percuss, rather than cut. Where kendo is restricted to three primary targets, kenjutsu cut to main arteries and functional parts of the human anatomy.

Some koryu kenjutsu ryuha have techniques which focus on cutting the sune, uchi-mata, both thumbs on the hand, the underside of the wrist or the armpit (all weakpoints in tosei-gusoku). These would be hansoku in kendo, but would kill or incapacitate an enemy in shinken-shobu.

Shotokan karate is a gendai budo of Okinawan origin, Mainly Shuri-te. It is very different to mainland Japanese unarmed combatives due to the difference in emphasis. Due to the very strong Chinese influence in Okinawan culture, kata are taught solo in a string of movements to preserve and pass on the techniques in a coded format, in a similar way to gung-fu/quan-fa. The more combative and dangerous techniques aren't taught until the practicioner is initated into the school fully.

Mainland Japanese classical unarmed combatives teach in a more hands on approach; The kata are paired. In conjunction with striking, grappling techniques are utilized as well as the usage of weapons (hidden or apparent) Important principles are relayed via the paired kata (i.e. timing & distance, practicality, srategy, tactics, etc.)
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