Register :: Log in :: Profile   


Anyone Here Familiar with Kum Bup?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // Martial Arts
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ronin Izumi
Peasant
Peasant
Veteran Member



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: Anyone Here Familiar with Kum Bup? Reply with quote
Kum Bup is a Korean martial art derived from the fusion of Japnese and Korean sword technique. Although its practice can be compared to Kendo (bokken and shinai are used.), the classes are treated more as a martial art than a sport. There are no points for hitting certain areas and after one's belt rank has increased to that of a deputy Black (yes, it uses belt ranks) students may train with steel. It isn't a common martial art, schools are rather rare, but it is still a very intense one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Hara.Tadayasu
Rice Farmer
Rice Farmer
Veteran Member



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 31
Location: Pribram, CZ

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I didn't know about it!
Thanks for info! Smile


I found this page:
http://www.hwarangkumdo.com/palpoong.htm

Does anyone knows what means Pal Poong Ta Kum Bup?
_________________
Hara no Ginzan Tadayasu
原の銀山忠泰
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Ronin Izumi
Peasant
Peasant
Veteran Member



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not, sure. Grand Master Ro translates most of what he wants to say to english. (I forgot to mention I am a student of this martial art and no, I have not yet tested for my Deputy Black.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
msr.iaidoka
Iaidouka
Iaidouka
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ronin Izumi,

The closest thing I have seen to that is Haidong Gumdo which, I must confess, looks totally ridiculous. The uniforms are all Japanese and they use Japanese style blades, other than that it looks like something that the choreographers for the new Star Wars movies would have come up with.
I will look around and see what I can find on your style, it sounds interesting and it would be refreshing to learn of a school that is not a joke.


Peace,

Matt
_________________
鋼鉄の海軍
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ronin Izumi wrote:
..I have not yet tested for my Deputy Black.)


Just curious what a "deputy" black belt is. When I was a hardcore martial artist, we just had the various ranks of black.

In retrospect, a lot of the stuff we were taught is sort of goofy to me now - by the time I left I was the highest ranking student, designated "sempai", and when I walked in the door, everyone stopped what they were doing, and all would bow and yell "Osu!" profusely. Looking back, it looks more like the yakuza gashira walking into his office than a martial arts class. All that was missing was someone thrusting a lit lighter in my face whenever I took out a cigarette (and the fact that I don't smoke).

Also, generally the pronunciation was beyond horrible - The "Oh-Nuh-Guy-She-Mah-Sue" thing grates on my brain when I remember it.


Last edited by kitsuno on Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
msr.iaidoka
Iaidouka
Iaidouka
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno,

I must admit that I have spent the majority of my martial arts career in such a school, but at least the techniques are sound enough to forgive the American-ness.
As for the deputy black thing, I have seen lots of schools that have a rank that is a transition between kyu and dan ranks. Some have a black belt with a white stripe, some have some other color belt, some red and black. Good schools use this as an opportunity to start grooming the student for teaching responsibilities. Bad schools (McDojo's) use this as yet another test/belt level to charge a fee for.


Peace,

Matt
_________________
鋼鉄の海軍
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
msr.iaidoka wrote:
kitsuno,

I must admit that I have spent the majority of my martial arts career in such a school, but at least the techniques are sound enough to forgive the American-ness.
As for the deputy black thing, I have seen lots of schools that have a rank that is a transition between kyu and dan ranks. Some have a black belt with a white stripe, some have some other color belt, some red and black. Good schools use this as an opportunity to start grooming the student for teaching responsibilities. Bad schools (McDojo's) use this as yet another test/belt level to charge a fee for.


I've never actualy seen a "mcdojo" but read all about them on the net. The school I was at was definately not about the money, the sensei had a general rule of paying $35 a month, but never collected if you couldn't pay. And after the kids left, things got brutal, but as a dumb teen, I loved it. I remember one class, we spent 20 minutes getting punched in the stomach - nothing else. He made me stand in horse stance, and take punches from everyone down the line, and unfortunatly for me, he (with those giant iron knuckles) would go last. I think the average joe on the street would have been pretty horrified by all the stuff we went through, but years later I always wondered if the fact that he was a Vietnam vet had something to do with it, like he knew what the worst could be, so he beat the hell out of us so we'd be ready for it. I had a blast, through every pulled muscle and broken knuckle - my friends and I were total masochists Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
msr.iaidoka
Iaidouka
Iaidouka
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno,

I guarantee that you have seen a McDojo at some point in your life. The vast majority tend to be either Tae Kwon Do school or ones that simply say "Karate." They are often located in shopping malls or other high traffic areas. They also tend to have a plethora of trophies in the windows. A big sign is when you see a section set aside in the dojo for an office, somewhere for people to sign contracts and such. The commercialization of the arts has rapidly brought the demise of it's credibility in the States.


Peace,

Matt
_________________
鋼鉄の海軍
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Algren-san
Togishi
Togishi
Veteran Member



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Hermitage, PA USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
msr.iaidoka wrote:
kitsuno,

I guarantee that you have seen a McDojo at some point in your life. The vast majority tend to be either Tae Kwon Do school or ones that simply say "Karate." They are often located in shopping malls or other high traffic areas. They also tend to have a plethora of trophies in the windows. A big sign is when you see a section set aside in the dojo for an office, somewhere for people to sign contracts and such. The commercialization of the arts has rapidly brought the demise of it's credibility in the States.


Peace,

Matt


Basically any Dojo/Dojang that is out purely for the money and not the preservation and continuation of the art can be a Mcdojo. However by far the most common schools are the Taekwondo and Karate schools and the ever common combination art of Taekwonkarate. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
msr.iaidoka
Iaidouka
Iaidouka
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Algren-san,

Bingo. Plus I love the ones with "Cardio Karate" and any other variation of the abominable Tae Bo. The "little dragon" classes are always pretty humorous.


Peace,

Matt
_________________
鋼鉄の海軍
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Algren-san
Togishi
Togishi
Veteran Member



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Hermitage, PA USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
msr.iaidoka wrote:
Algren-san,

Bingo. Plus I love the ones with "Cardio Karate" and any other variation of the abominable Tae Bo. The "little dragon" classes are always pretty humorous.


Peace,

Matt


Don't forget the Tiny Tigers of the ATA
http://www.atakick.com/tiny_tigers.htm

or the little budos of the bujinkan
http://www.pittsburghbujinkan.com/pbd_003.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Algren-san
Togishi
Togishi
Veteran Member



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 135
Location: Hermitage, PA USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rikoseishin wrote:
And if you join one of those MCdojo's you can look forward to getting instructions from "people" like this:



Laughing Laughing Laughing
_________________
Pennsylvania is very unstable. I don't know how else to explain it.-My Japanese Teacher
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shikisoku
Yamashiro no Kami
Yamashiro no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 2638
Location: 天領 Tama

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am shocked that Korean Kumdo propaganda is spreaded that much.
I believed at least Samurai Archives members wouldn't take the nunsense.
Gumdo (or Kumdo) was brought to Korea from Japan to train Korean police men in early 20th century.
Gumdo is Korean pronunciation of Kendo.
And there was no "Gumdo" on any Korean historical records.(Gumdo didn't existed)
That's why Gumdo players are wearing Kendo uniform.
But most of foreigners can't find out difference between Chinese and Japanese and Korean cultures so they think nothing wrong with the Korean Gumdo players wearing Japanese armors and folk clothes.

These are Korean soldier or yangbang in 19th century.


And here are Gumdo players.

http://www.hwarangkumdo.com/

You see there is no relation between Gumdo uniform and Korean folk clothes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
msr.iaidoka
Iaidouka
Iaidouka
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
shikisoku,

I totally agree with you. Korea is the only country I know of where the Kendouka call their art anything other than Kendou. It is really sad.


Peace,

Matt
_________________
鋼鉄の海軍
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ronin Izumi
Peasant
Peasant
Veteran Member



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
All members,
Please pardon my lateness, I have been working at a summer camp and have not had access to the internet until now.
To answer some questions. The phrase deputy black partly comes from Grand Master's attempt to integrate into the culture. The result is usually him translating Korean phrases to some english equivalent rather than using the attack/stance/title's Korean name. Indeed, "deputy" is a transition into the Dan system. (from the geup system) Once one enters the Dan rank, it you have also reached the point where there is little more that can be taught to you with a wooden sword and you are expected to use steel from that point on. (I was mis-informed but my senior set me straight, steel begins at First Dan, not at Deputy.)

The uniforms of Kum Bup are not Japanese. I am a little offended that I'm being compared to whatever this "Gumdo" is, but I assure you that it is not what I practice. Aside from the wood and bamboo swords, we don't use any of the equipment listed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
msr.iaidoka
Iaidouka
Iaidouka
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ronin Izumi,

If I said anything to compare Kum Bup to Kumdo I apologize for it was unintended. The only things I have had an issue with are Kumdo and Haidong Gumdo. I wish you the best of luck with your training. Smile


Peace,

Matt
_________________
鋼鉄の海軍
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah, I don't think anyone was comparing the two, I think it was more like "hmm. that sounds like this other thing i've heard of".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shikisoku
Yamashiro no Kami
Yamashiro no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 2638
Location: 天領 Tama

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
The uniforms of Kum Bup are not Japanese


Sip Sam Seh 2006/Opening van een Ssang Soo Kum Bup loopvorm.JPG


Kum Bup list
http://www.hwarangkumdo.com/kumbup_list.htm

Doesn't it look like Japanese folk clothes?
Is Chinese letters of Kum Bup ->剣法?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
msr.iaidoka
Iaidouka
Iaidouka
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
shikisoku,

Hmm..."typical" Tae Kwon Do dobok (based off the Japanese gi and decidedly peasant) mixed with guys in hakama wearing an obi that is not worn with such attire.
Otherwise I shall reserve comment on that postures and technique.


Peace,

Matt
_________________
鋼鉄の海軍
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ronin Izumi
Peasant
Peasant
Veteran Member



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I should actually appologize for my remark. It was far too easily read as harsh. I meant it sarcastically. Still, I'm as confused about this Kumdo as all of you are.

Also, those pictures are at the very least entertaining. Smile

Thank you very much and the best of luck in the training of all of you as well. It's quit interesting, due to the how busy I've been, I've been away from my school. But after getting back on track I feel more spiritually and phisically whole.
(Pardon my ramblings, I've been refelcting to myself about the martial arts lately.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
shikisoku
Yamashiro no Kami
Yamashiro no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 2638
Location: 天領 Tama

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kum Bup is 剣法 (kenpo in Japanese)
It's just a pronoun of sword fighting martial arts like Kenjitsu.
(Try google 剣法
http://www.google.co.jp/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=ja&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-22,GGLJ:ja&q=%e5%89%a3%e6%b3%95)

Look at this picture I posted says Hwarangdo Kum-bup


Please be aware that many Japanese are angry at their propaganda.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ronin Izumi
Peasant
Peasant
Veteran Member



Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
shikisoku wrote:
Kum Bup is 剣法 (kenpo in Japanese)
It's just a pronoun of sword fighting martial arts like Kenjitsu.
(Try google 剣法
http://www.google.co.jp/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=ja&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-22,GGLJ:ja&q=%e5%89%a3%e6%b3%95)

Look at this picture I posted says Hwarangdo Kum-bup


Please be aware that many Japanese are angry at their propaganda.


Your first points has already been established. I have also established the martial arts pictured do not even resemble what I practice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
msr.iaidoka
Iaidouka
Iaidouka
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 1865
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ronin Izumi,

Herein lies one of the biggest problems with the diaspora of the arts...the confusion with names. Whenever anyone sees or hears that one particular art is less than good then anything with that name becomes equally bad.
For example, Aikidou. There are quite a many style of Aikidou with their own idiosyncracies, therefore they can not possibly all be the same. However, I must confess my own bias against Aikidou, which makes me a part of the problem. Smile Horray for being human.


Peace,

Matt
_________________
鋼鉄の海軍
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lazarou's_Ronin
Peasant
Peasant
Veteran Member



Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 19
Location: U.K.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Regarding mcdojo..



My sempai went to washington recently, and being te devout Aikidoka he is, he took his gi. The nearest club professed to be 'Shodokan Aikido', only noone touched anyone else. Apparantly, Nage and Uke stood in kamae, way out of distance. Nage performed the techniqueon the airand gave a hearty HUHNNNNN kiai thing.. Then uke (untouched)also gave a HUHNNNNN and then took an ukemi.

Needless to say, my sempai sat on the edge of the mat, puzzled, then bowed and left the dojo.


lol Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // Martial Arts All times are GMT - 10 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Help the Samurai Archives




alexisRed v1.2 // Theme Created By: Andrew Charron // Samuraized By: Aaron Rister

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group