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Was Musashi the first one to publish a two sword style?

 
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A.L.Mundell
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:21 am    Post subject: Was Musashi the first one to publish a two sword style? Reply with quote
I have heard from My Kentei Sensei there is a piece of art from 1597 that shows those Samurai holding two swords going into battle,I have not seen the print,but,I wondered if Musashi was the first one write down a two sword style?
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Bushikan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:41 pm    Post subject: 二刀 or 両刀  Reply with quote
No, there are several schools that were created before Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu Kenjutsu (兵法二天一流剣術), like Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu Heiho (天神正伝香取神道流兵法)created around 1447 (TSKSR uses the term 両刀/ryoto) and Tatsumi Ryu(立身流兵法) created around 1504. So Musashi was not the first however, he brought the concept to new heights of popularity.
The way Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu uses it two swords is very different from other styles I have seen. HNTIR creates this kind of barrier that is hard for a swordsmen to penitrate, its like a wall of sorts. Meaning that is it hard to find an opening to attack. It is a very well though out. If you compare that to TSKSR's ryoto it is very different. TSKSR's Ryoto is flowing, always moving, striking, defending, it has a rather instictive and chaotic feeling to it. There are also other ryu that contain defense against two sword attacks that were created before HNTIR like Yagyu Shinkage Ryu Hyoho (柳生新陰流兵法).
So Musashi was not the first but defidently an innovator of sorts. He brought the ideal of dueling and the use of two swords to new levels. And is treated as a sort of Hayashizaki Shigenobu. Even though he was not the first to develop such techniques, he is reconised by many to be the person who brought the use of such tactics to the general public (though he was not certainly the only person to use two swords in battle).

hope this helps
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A.L.Mundell
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes indeed it does,as my Kentei Sensei was talking about Musashi in a way that was less that resepctful,however,I felt it out of place to criticize his assessment,and even though I felt like it I lacked the knowledge,Now,I can think of what I SHOULD have said Cool thanx!
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A good number of koryu bujutsu ryuha formed nito waza (two sword technique) way before Miyamoto Musashi.


Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-ryu, Yagyu Shinkage-ryu, Shingyoto-ryu, Araki-ryu, Sosuishi-ryu, Tendo-ryu, Shinto Muso-ryu jo (And one of it's heiden bujutsu, Shinto-ryu kenjutsu), Tatsumi-ryu, Kashima Shinto-ryu and Shingetsu Muso Yanagi-ryu all have Nito waza in their curriculum.
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Miyake
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have seen many instances of Warriors using dual swords, but reading this thread brought a question to my mind...

Is there record of people using two different weapons together?
I have seen dual spearmen in Shaolin scriptures, but is there a record of Samurai using two Yari? Or Naginata and Yari? or just any two-weapon combination other than Katana-Wakizashi?

P.S. - Musashi kicks serious ass! Cool
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JLBadgley
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My understanding on this is that Musashi's "innovation" was the use of two equally long katana--strength training the arms so that you could use both equally effectively. That said, the daisho pair were more common and there were definitely people that did that.

Two different two handed weapons (I cound the katana, like the European longsword, as generally hand-and-a-half, and these are borderline) make no sense to wield together if you want to do anything other than defend, imho. It may happen, but I would be surprised to see it codified anywhere.

On the other hand, you see two one-handed weapons all the time (jutte, kabuto-wari, kama, etc.)

-Josh
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