Register :: Log in :: Profile   


Shinseki haiku

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // Japanese Literature Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
shin no sen
Izumi no Kami
Izumi no Kami
Veteran Member
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 1056

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:02 pm    Post subject: Shinseki haiku Reply with quote
Hi Guys, Not being really artistic or well versed in Haiku I need some help. I have a tsuba that has a poem in sosho. Here is what I have and my poor attempt to make an English translation. Any help would be appreciated. John
日乃影や
ごもくのうえの親雀



<ひのかげや ごもくのうえの おやすずめ>「ごもく」は、小川の浅瀬に発生する水草。陽光のまぶしい春の昼下がり。水草の上を親スズメがひょいひょいと渡っている。軽みの句。


My attempt.

The withered water plant in the Ogawa shoal.
The afternoons spring sun dazzles.
The sparrow crosses the solitude.
_________________
知恵は時間及びエネルギーである
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bethetsu
Oki no Kami
Oki no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1376
Location: Center of Musashi

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is this a commentary on the poem?
「ごもく」は、小川の浅瀬に発生する水草 is an explanation of Gomoku, not part of the poem. "Ogawa" means "brook," and I don't see anything about "withered."

It looks you made a translation of the commentary, not of the poem itself. Is that what you want? In any case, I would try again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shin no sen
Izumi no Kami
Izumi no Kami
Veteran Member
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 1056

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was trying to reverse engineer the poem from the commentary. I would like to know what the poem means. Trying to make sense in Enlish is hard for me. If you can, it would be great. John
_________________
知恵は時間及びエネルギーである
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JLBadgley
Tsushima no Kami
Tsushima no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei



Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 1617
Location: Washington, DC, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
This may be of some help:

http://renku.home.att.net/500ESWd.html

http://www.temcauley.staff.shef.ac.uk/makurakotoba.shtml#komoriku%20no

http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.com/

http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/japanese/shinkokinshu/index.html

What is the image? Do you know who wrote the poem? These things can all give some insight. The various words are often packed with meanins and allusions to other poetry. The straight meaning is often just one.

I'd probably go with:

Beneath the sun's rays,
A parental sparrow flies
Over the reeds.

But it depends on what kind of translation you are looking for.

-Josh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shin no sen
Izumi no Kami
Izumi no Kami
Veteran Member
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 1056

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is a suaka tsuba with a katakiribori, kebori depiction of a sparrow and bamboo. The sosho script has keywords that refer to this haiku by Shinseki. I was hoping someone had reference to his work translated. Haiku in Japanese have to be precise to convey the original intent in English. Quite beyond me. Interesting links. Nice try at translation too. John
_________________
知恵は時間及びエネルギーである
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JLBadgley
Tsushima no Kami
Tsushima no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei



Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 1617
Location: Washington, DC, USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is, of course, the quintessential problem of translating poetry Smile

What it seems to me is that you have several things going on here. The grass and sparrow on the tsuba are the obvious allusion, here.

Per the commentary, the season is spring.

Not sure if this is part of it or not, but an 'oyatori' (parent bird) appears to also a reference to something that raises another (such as an adoptive child).

The Buson Haikushu by Buson Yosa (1716-1784), section one, also has a poem mentioning 'oyasuzume':

飛かはすやたけごゞろや親雀

It is listed under '懷舊', for which I don't have an easy translation available at the moment. This is in the section on spring.

'Hikage' or 'Hinokage' appears to be fairly straight forward--I can't find any common theme in its use as-is. It seems to be used for any time of the year to depict sunlight. The oldest reference I found was from the Man'yoshu, but I don't know that it helps any:

[原文]足日木乃 夜麻之多日影 可豆良家流 宇倍尓也左良尓 梅乎之<努>波牟

[訓読]あしひきの山下ひかげかづらける上にやさらに梅をしのはむ

[仮名],あしひきの,やましたひかげ,かづらける,うへにやさらに,うめをしのはむ

I'm not familiar with Shinseki right off the bat--and usually I'm getting the titles of works rather than someone's name. Any further information on this poet?


Not sure if any of this is helpful.

-Josh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shin no sen
Izumi no Kami
Izumi no Kami
Veteran Member
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 1056

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, It is coming together. Shinseki was a student of Basho. Thanks, John
_________________
知恵は時間及びエネルギーである
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // Japanese Literature Forum All times are GMT - 10 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Help the Samurai Archives




alexisRed v1.2 // Theme Created By: Andrew Charron // Samuraized By: Aaron Rister

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group