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maikeruart
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I guess my two cents is you can do with both technique and strength. My sensei was an ex college football player/weight lifter form a family of perosnal trainers, so he had the muscles. But he said when he is 80 and crapping himself, his muscles that he worked hard on will be gone, so he needs the technique perfect just in case he is 80 and in a sword fight. Now I have a craptastic build so I work more on my technique.

Last edited by maikeruart on Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pgsmith
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Kondo Isami practiced Tennen Rishin Ryu.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=HwoNw3u-1tg

Cool! That is the first I've seen of this school. So are all of their kata done with suburito? That's a twist!
Quote:
The video posted earlier was Yakumaru Jigen-ryu by the way.

So, do you have Jigen ryu radar that you automatically show up wherever it is being discussed? Smile

Thanks for the info Alex. It's always good to see your posts!
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kendoka girl
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
A friend just sent me a dvd on Shinkendo by Obata Toshishiro. It seemed that he was certainly not powering through the cuts.
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zealuk
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
pgsmith wrote:
Quote:
Kondo Isami practiced Tennen Rishin Ryu.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=HwoNw3u-1tg

Cool! That is the first I've seen of this school. So are all of their kata done with suburito? That's a twist!
Quote:
The video posted earlier was Yakumaru Jigen-ryu by the way.

So, do you have Jigen ryu radar that you automatically show up wherever it is being discussed? Smile

Thanks for the info Alex. It's always good to see your posts!


I just hang around these kind of boards too much while I'm supposed to be working!

I saw Tennenrishin-ryu demonstrate last year in Kumamoto, but I don't remember much about it. I think they use habikito and normal sized bokuto for kata as well as the big suburito looking ones.

They also do a bit of cutting.

Back on topic, body conditioning is important, but you have to consider what you are conditioning yourself for. Grip strength, lats, lower back strength and leg strength would seem more important to focus on than bicep or tricep exercises to me. General abdominal strength is pretty important too. People talk a lot about using 'kahanshin,' so I suppose you could work out how to transfer power from your lower body to the tip of an object you are holding by looking at the interaction of various muscle groups. Probably just best to practice until your teacher says it's right. Having loads of muscle is surely just a hinderance if you can't apply that power to effective technique.

Not that I get round to any of this. I spend as much time as I can training, and hope to build up the muscle groups I'll need through using them that way.

'Back in the day' bushi lived a fairly spartan existence (especially Satsuma goju kyoiku - Haru Reischauer's Samurai and Silk has a consice description of this) and had a high level of fitness from their recreational activities (kids would play various violent and physcially taxing games) and even their daily lives. We seem like a bunch of podgy commuters in comparison. I can't imagine walking to Tokyo from Kagoshima.....
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rikoseishin
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alex,

Well look who found our little neck of the woods. Always glad to see you. And is the hand fully recovered?
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zealuk
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rikoseishin wrote:
Alex,

Well look who found our little neck of the woods. Always glad to see you. And is the hand fully recovered?


Hey Jonah.

Much better thanks.
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rikoseishin
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Alex,

Glad to hear it. Give that tategi what for.

And what was the answer to that bottle of MacAllen? Or would you prefer Glenmorangie?
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zealuk
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rikoseishin wrote:
And what was the answer to that bottle of MacAllen? Or would you prefer Glenmorangie?


Haha, hey don't worry about it man!
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ichibyoshi
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno wrote:
When I was a hardcore insane martial artist I trained EVERYTHING. Track and field, handstands, heavybag, climbing, running, knuckles, shins, falling on concrete, jumping, extreme temperatures, throwing, weights, weapons, etc. Pretty much anything that you can think of that will either exercise you or hurt you, I did. Now I'm too old and worn out, but at that point I was iron man (cue black sabbath)


When I read this I was reminded of this quote of Musashi's (from www.hyoho.com)

Miyamoto Musashi wrote:
However Miyamoto asked himself, What does winning mean? He realised that he had won up to that point by chance. There was no absolute promise of winning whenever, wherever or however he fought. As long as he lived he would grow older, ill and die. If a swordsman became ill or injured at some time or hurt himself, someone (who) was aware of swordsmanship could easily strike him down. As he became old even a woman or a child would be able to beat him. In other words, one can only win in times of good health. In this case no matter how hard one practices and studies Kenjutsu and raises oneself to an masterful standard it will all be a waste of time if one is ill. What a hopeless situation. All the effort will be in vain.

He came to the conclusion, The previous victories were not due to me having mastered strategy. My Hyoho was merely the result of earthly desires. It was coarse of me.. In this process of thinking he abruptly reached spiritual enlightenment.


I think it's probably axiomatic that budoka who study primarily sword arts are less interested in physical conditioning that focuses on muscle building than those who study various empty-hand arts (not saying it's not useful, of course it is, but perhaps it's just a mindset difference). I think that's because there is less need to be able to take a lot of punishment in sword arts. Not so much force-on-force when blades are involved.

b

edit - dang! 3 posts. Better leave it at that. Always wanted to be a vagrant. Happy at the bottom...
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kendoka girl
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've been finding that anything that works my lats and tri's has translated well into sword handling. The iaito and shinai "feel" lighter and thus my cuts are cleaner and crisper. My ooji waza has also been faster and more forceful. If one is not looking to "bulk up" I can't see a downside to overall physical conditioning.
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ichibyoshi
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree that targeted development of the right muscle groups can help your movement improve, not because you're stronger but because you are able to use fewer muscles to do the same job. IOW it helps achieve optimal biomechanical efficiency.

However that efficiency never comes without an experienced teacher to guide you.

b
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pgsmith
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
If one is not looking to "bulk up" I can't see a downside to overall physical conditioning.

However, the original poster said that he has been "lifting weights". In guy speak, this means that he has been trying to bulk up, not working on overall physical conditioning. Smile
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kendoka girl
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ichibyoshi wrote:
I agree that targeted development of the right muscle groups can help your movement improve, not because you're stronger but because you are able to use fewer muscles to do the same job. IOW it helps achieve optimal biomechanical efficiency.

However that efficiency never comes without an experienced teacher to guide you.

b


Absolutely! Proper training and technique weighs in far more than physical strength.
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kendoka girl
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
pgsmith wrote:
Quote:
If one is not looking to "bulk up" I can't see a downside to overall physical conditioning.

However, the original poster said that he has been "lifting weights". In guy speak, this means that he has been trying to bulk up, not working on overall physical conditioning. Smile


Shocked I forget sometimes that we speak different languages...so to speak. Just Kidding
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Lord Ruin
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow, I didn't know this topic was still getting replys. Well. Currently I've stoped my lifting regiment. I remember some of you said that strong legs and torso would be good for what I want to do. So I guess I'll start focusing on those areas.
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