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Hokusai's Daughter

 
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Shisendo
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:55 am    Post subject: Hokusai's Daughter Reply with quote
A novel called The Ghost Brush, by Katherine Govier, was released in Canada last week (scheduled for September in the US). The reason I mention it in the Art forum is because it posits that Hokusai's daughter, Oei, is responsible for many of the prints created in the last ten years of Hokusai's life that are either unattributed or considered forgeries by art historians. I've included a link that goes directly to page 5 of the image gallery on The Ghost Brush website, which displays a print attributed to Oei that is a part of the Boston Museum of Fine Arts collection. At this point, I'd just like to turn this thread over to any of the art history students on our forum and ask if they are aware of this possibility that Oei might be responsible for more works than she is given credit for, and how much credence this theory has in art history circles right now.
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have not heard of this theory at all, and it does seem like the kind of thing a novelist might come up with just to add interesting twists to her novel, and to expand upon the life of a historical figure about whom very little is actually known.

I don't mean that disparagingly at all, btw. But it does seem a relatively common sort of thing to do in historical fiction.

Now, there may very well be proper academic articles out there discussing this possibility (especially in Japanese scholarship, where there's a much greater volume of work in general, and presumably on Oi in particular as well)... I just haven't seen them.

It's a most interesting idea...
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for following up lordameth. My first thought was novelist invention, but after delving into the site and seeing a couple Oei prints that looked far different from the Hokusai woodcuts I am familiar with, I began to wonder if there was something more to it than intuition. If you or anyone else comes across an academic perspective on the topic, please share it here.
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I certainly will. She's a fascinating figure, and an amazing painter; I'm always on the lookout for more about her.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am also agreed this is not novelist invention.

To tell the truth in addition- I have the Hokusai-themed novel by Russian wrighter,published in early 1970s, who also takes this version as true.

But more importantly- if I understand a tradition true such things is not uncommon in ukiyo-e.

As for examle, examining and translating this print by Kunisada from my collection:



I've, besides all have found that this page also is signed by Utagawa Kuniteru (Kunisada's pupil) on the girl's kimono.



It's a possibility , that he made some part of the painting (not carving or printing) job for this page.

As Hokusai's daughter possibly did on some of his late works...
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing this!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
You are wellcome.
I'll try to be usefull in the future also.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't doubt that Hokusai supervised a number of apprentices who contributed to his work and established styles of their own. Still, it seems to me that there is a distinctive style to the Views of Mt. Fuji that says Hokusai more than the pieces that came out toward the end of his life that bear the influence of other artists.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
As I understand, in Japan they do not considering Hiroshige and Hokusai, as "the greatests", like we do in the West, thanksgiven to the Impresionists.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Isogai wrote:
As I understand, in Japan they do not considering Hiroshige and Hokusai, as "the greatests", like we do in the West, thanksgiven to the Impresionists.


I'm afraid that their work is as overexposed as the Impressionists. Familiarity does take away some of its power. When I look closely at Hokusai's famous blue wave though, I still see the genius of an artist who seemed to anticipate the complexity of a Mandelbrot set over a century before it was modelled with the assistance of computer visualizations.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Besides, the Japanese are crazy about the Impressionists, more so perhaps even than we are in the West.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shisendo wrote:
When I look closely at Hokusai's famous blue wave though, I still see the genius of an artist.


So do I.
But, as I know in Japan they consider Kunisada as the greatest artist of the period.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Isogai wrote:
Shisendo wrote:
When I look closely at Hokusai's famous blue wave though, I still see the genius of an artist.


So do I.
But, as I know in Japan they consider Kunisada as the greatest artist of the period.


Not every prophet is respected in his own land. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's right.
They (Hokusai and Hiroshoige) are geniuos.
Especialy in lanscape.
Kunisada is fine and one of my favorite.
As I understan they like him for being a head of large Utagawa school, living may pupiles, working in traditional genres etc.
They say H.& H. as "too much Westernalised".
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have never heard of Hokusai or Hiroshige being less popular in Japan, or of Kunisada being particularly well-loved. Kuniyoshi, maybe.

But in any case, it's certainly true that both drew extensively from Western influences, including use of Western-style perspective. That's part of what made them so popular among Western audiences.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I went to a Vincent van Gogh exhibition in Tokyo recently; he is enormously popular in Japan, perhaps partly because he was so open to Japanese art, and his work shows this influence. I think these cross cultural exchanges in art in the 18th and 19th centuries are fascinating.

(And I think I am going to have to order The Ghost Brush: it sounds very good)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
heron wrote:
I went to a Vincent van Gogh exhibition in Tokyo recently; he is enormously popular in Japan, perhaps partly because he was so open to Japanese art, and his work shows this influence. I think these cross cultural exchanges in art in the 18th and 19th centuries are fascinating.

(And I think I am going to have to order The Ghost Brush: it sounds very good)


The novel left me with a curiously neutral impression. If you pick it up, I'd like to hear your thoughts in case I missed something.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
lordameth wrote:
I have never heard of Hokusai or Hiroshige being less popular in Japan, or of Kunisada being particularly well-loved. Kuniyoshi, maybe.


No, Kunisada, exactly, as I've heard.
But I can't tell I've study a problem well.
If Your statment (regarding Hokusai and Hiroshige) is true- it's really very good, I think.
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