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So I was watching the National Geographic Channel...
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msr.iaidoka
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
maikeruart,

That is excellent. Smile


Peace,

Matt
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Metsuke wrote:
Yeah, I figured as much. The TKD guy just hacked away. It wasnt pretty at all. Did alot of damage to the gel but uh... not very graceful.

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msr.iaidoka
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hey all,

I just watched this the other day and here are my insights:

1) The first half of the show was rather interesting and the explanations of the finer points of the basic techniques was about as close to perfect as one could get.
2) The lumping of all "kung fu" styles into one representative was rather weak. Much like only having one "karate" stylist when there is a substantial difference between the Okinawan and mainland Japanese styles.
3) They brought out kenshi to demonstrate tameshigiri (even though the style they chose was not a good choice) but when it came to testing the cutting style on the ballistics gel dummy they put the sword in the hand of the Aussie/baton-twirling Tae Kwon Dodo. Rolling Eyes
4) One word. Ninja. Ninja!


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マット
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kitsuno
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I saw this last week too - as I expected, the bigger the person, the harder they hit - in fact, body type and size had more effect on every test they did than martial arts "style". And the "ninja balance" thing was pretty much practice - anyone could have done it with enough practice - I highly doubt "being a ninja" has anything to do with it. It was interesting, but that's about it. And the guy hacking the balistic gel was just plain stupid. And the ninja thing was just plain stupid, "Ninja were able to do the things that samurai, bound by the bushido code, were not allowed to do, like assassination". Come on.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno wrote:
I saw this last week too - as I expected, the bigger the person, the harder they hit - in fact, body type and size had more effect on every test they did than martial arts "style". .


If we're discussing the martial science show again if you'll recall the Muay Tai guy had the hardest strike. He was also the only one smart enough to hold onto the dummy to prevent recoil

Rick
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msr.iaidoka
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno,

I still have to maintain that the technique was the deciding factor in the power of the strikes as evidenced by the lack of body power leant to the strike delivered by the kung fu stylist as compared to the full right cross delivered by the boxer.
As for the ninja balance thing...yeah. As for all things ninja...yeah...moving on.
I had to cringe too when they went off on the bushidou thing. That, and the pajama-clad super monkey were they only problems with the first half of the show.


Hometutor,

Excellent observation about the Muay Thai fighter. I was surprised that they did not have any of the "punch" attackers use their elbows in the same manner.
What are your impressions on the show?


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マット
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
msr.iaidoka wrote:
kitsuno,
Hometutor,

Excellent observation about the Muay Thai fighter. I was surprised that they did not have any of the "punch" attackers use their elbows in the same manner.
What are your impressions on the show?
マット


My feelings seem to differ from many of the martial artists who discussed it. Many of them seemed to be concerned about same sizes different styles etc. To me the question was is a trained person capable of hitting as hard as a 30mph impact. Can a man be faster than a snake. Even the ninja guy showed he could use exception balance regardless of whether he got his training from stunt work or martial ats.

Would I have liked to see more data and controlled conditions? Sure, but it was shown that a human being is capable of doing those things. To me that's what the show was about

Rick
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hometutor wrote:

If we're discussing the martial science show again if you'll recall the Muay Tai guy had the hardest strike. He was also the only one smart enough to hold onto the dummy to prevent recoil

Rick


Holding the dummy and using his legs got him the power - he's using his knee in a crushing-driving power strike, I could probably do the same thing on a dummy and hit as hard as a trained boxer does with thier hands. Of course, only a muay thai person would probably hit that way, so in that way muay thai "style" is more powerful, simply because no one else really would use that strike. But a 300 pound kickboxer will hit harder than a 100 pound kickboxer. I still thought it was interesting (but more like "what will they think up next?"
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hometutor,

Good points. I would love to see this become the inspiration behind someones masters thesis. The problem I have with improper stylistic representations is that, especially with weapons, doing the wrong technique will give a bad reading and could cause damage to the demonstrator.
I love seeing the limits of human potential which is why I love to watch Wushu stylists do their thing.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not sure what degree program that would work with, but it would be interesting. I just realized the additional point that the thai guy was pulling the dummy into his leg, so it gets the added force - like the difference between you hitting a stationary object and one running towards you, the one running towards you would get a heck of a whack.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hometutor wrote:
Sure, but it was shown that a human being is capable of doing those things. To me that's what the show was about


I agree - and I think it's too bad that most people don't realize that pretty much anyone can do it with the proper training (well, at least if you start out young and healthy enough).
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msr.iaidoka
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
kitsuno,

That would probably be Kinesiology or possibly Anatomy and Physiology.
The beauty of strikes like that Muay Thai knee strike is that you are making certain that there is no waste of kinetic energy. Some of my favorite strikes involve making the person stay there and absorb everything.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
"I have a PhD in kicking ass!" *WHACK*
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
msr.iaidoka wrote:
kitsuno,

Some of my favorite strikes involve making the person stay there and absorb everything.


平和,

マット


Friend of mine's no name kung-fu system is very old. It's designed to fight mutliple attackers, but the interesting thing about it is that it takes into account how the human body reacts to a strike. The concept in the art he studies is not to execute any strikes which moves your attacker away from you. These were his words - it's similar to what the three stooges do. When he taught me some of the art I saw what he meant, even striking a body part at an angle to keep him planted was taught

Your idea of making sure your attacker didn't move reminded me of that

Rick
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hometutor,

That is quite interesting. I have honestly never come across that theory to group fighting. The prevailing idea that I have seen is to use the other bodies to your advantage by knocking one into the other.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
msr.iaidoka wrote:
Hometutor,

That is quite interesting. I have honestly never come across that theory to group fighting. The prevailing idea that I have seen is to use the other bodies to your advantage by knocking one into the other.


平和,

マット


That theory remained of course. It was just what you did with people as you struck them. They only fell because they were dead. The other thing he explained he did was he executed a technique which would not matter if he struck the man

For example he demonstrated to me stomping and scraping the shin at an attacker behind him. He'd stll do the same step even if he missed

Rick
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hometutor,

Ah, I see. All movements remaining the same and serving dual purposes. Tactical conservation of energy.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I watched this show a little while back and I must say something about it even though this topic is a bit old. First of all, I have done a few styles of traditional kung fu and I have also done wushu. I wasn't pleased that the ONLY representative for ALL of kung fu was a young wushu champ. Traditional kung fu is MUCH more about real fighting than flips and flowered forms. The Tae Kwon Do representative was good at tournament style TKD which looks really cool but he didn't display any practical fighting ability. The ninjitsu representative dancing around on the plum blossom poles was hilarious and from my experience practicing both kung fu and ninjitsu, the plum blossom poles are really more related to tradional kung fu training. I researched the backgrounds of all the people on the show. I couldn't find anything about where the ninjitsu practicioner studied ninjitsu. He did display some real ninjitsu knowledge but I don't believe he's worthy of being on tv representing ninjitsu. I don't believe the best way to measure hitting power was by hitting the dummy the way they did. Hitting power is more about damage inflicted to a soft human body and not necesarily about how hard you can make contact with a solid object. They said that boxers use spiraling or weight distribution to punch hard but that really isn't how the average boxer is taught, trains or fights. To my best knowledge spiraling or weight distribution from foot to fist is a kung fu skill and it is what is essential to the one inch punch which was also misrepresented by the wushu kid. The main reason the punches and kicks were harder with different styles had primarily to do with the size and momentum of the punch or kick and not the style. The coolest part of the show was the weapons part in my opinion. It was cool to see Tatsu from the Ninja Turtles do cutting exercises but where was he when they let the TKD guy let loose on the jello mold? Wouldn't Tatsu have been offended to see the TKD so blatantly misrepresenting the practical use of a Katana? Once again, when testing the striking speed and power of weapons the strikes weren't measured the most ideal way possible, but it was cool anyway. Overall the show was entertaining but next time when they put together a list of martial artists they need to ask real martial artists and not hollywood stunt men.
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