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Harakiri Remake....in 3D?
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Tornadoes28
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Review of Miike's Hara Kiri on ScreenDaily.com

http://www.screendaily.com/reviews/latest-reviews/hara-kiri-death-of-a-samurai/5027840.article

It seems Mike got it reversed in my opinion. If he had to chose which film to use 3D, it seems that 13 Assassins would have been the more appropriate rather than shooting Hara Kiri in 3D. Although the majority of the fighting in both films is at the very end, the large scale battle in the village in 13 Assassins in my opinion is better suited to 3D rather than the smaller scale combat inside the House of Ii. Personally the final battle in the original Hara Kiri is one of my favorite sword fight scenes of all time and I am interested to see how Miike lives up to that, even in 3D.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:02 am    Post subject: 3D Reply with quote
I doubt we will get the 3D Version anyway ,still i agree with you he got it back to front .

Meanwhile Takeshi's good buddy Quentin who had a bit part in "Sukiyaki "is preparing to bore us to death with
"Django Unchained " starring Will Smith.

He describes the 3 hour talk fest as Django crossed with Mandingo .

Of course he would never have the Cajones to make a Django Film like this .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n9CgZqMRgc
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I take it neither of you saw the new Clash of the Titans in 3D? The 3D was great in everything except the action scenes, where it sucked hard. And I doubt miike filmed it with Avatar-quality digital cameras anyway.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks like even Osama's Bin Watchin'


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject: 13 Reply with quote
Cool !.
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just watched Harakiri for the first time in about 21 years, and I'm convinced that it is perfect for a remake. The cinematography in Harakiri really stands out, and I'd love to see it in full color, with a more "modern" take on the ending. Samurai movies of the 50s and 60s always seem to have portrayed swordfights more like Kabuki, where it's a representation of a fight rather than a crisp, full speed realistic portrayal, and Miike has shown that he excels at cinematography, costume design, sound engineering, and fight scenes, so I'm really looking forward to it.

One thing I noticed was that they kept referring to Ronin swarming the streets left over from Sekigahara - but this takes place 30 years after Sekigahara, so it seemed odd to me that they'd keep talking about contemporary Edo being swarming with Ronin from Sekigahara.

What I'd really like to see is an original script from him though, because no matter how good his remakes are, they are still remakes, so I think that's how they'll always be framed.
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: harakiri Reply with quote
At the risk of being flogged "13 Assassins" did not impress me .

It seemed short on character development and would really have reaped rewards by being about 30 mins longer and concentrating more on plot .

Though the fighting of course is the focal point i found it to be bloodless for the most part ,Miike could have channeled his inner Peckinpah and made that 40 min melee truly epic ,Of course he is making a film for a mass audience so while i thought it was a perfect film for newbies to the genre it did not do much for those who have seen more than a few .

On "Seppuku" i always had a problem with the 30 years after Sekigahara issue not to mention its also 15 years after Osaka .
Seems to remember more than a few heated debates on that point .
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: harakiri Reply with quote
wicked iemon wrote:
At the risk of being flogged "13 Assassins" did not impress me .

It seemed short on character development and would really have reaped rewards by being about 30 mins longer and concentrating more on plot .

Though the fighting of course is the focal point i found it to be bloodless for the most part ,Miike could have channeled his inner Peckinpah and made that 40 min melee truly epic ,Of course he is making a film for a mass audience so while i thought it was a perfect film for newbies to the genre it did not do much for those who have seen more than a few .

On "Seppuku" i always had a problem with the 30 years after Sekigahara issue not to mention its also 15 years after Osaka .
Seems to remember more than a few heated debates on that point .



I don't disagree about the character development - the first time I saw it, I think I recognized maybe 5 or 6 of the 13 once the battle started - but the Japanese release has an additional 20 minutes or so of character development that was cut out of the US version, and I should have it in a week or two, so I can get a look at what was cut.

Mainly for me I was most impressed by the costumes, the sound, and the realistic combat style - like I mentioned before, older Samurai movies seemed like they were just suggesting a swordfight rather than actually swordfighting. 13 Assassins definitely did not have that problem. Not to mention, there was almost no annoying unrealistic acrobatics, except for maybe one of the Samurai jumping 30 feet off a wall to land on their feet and start fighting.

As for the battle, I thought it was realistic enough, and more importantly subdued enough to be good - if there was a lot of crazy gushing arterial sprays like the old chambara films, it would have killed it for me.
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Additional character development would have been good but like you said, the Japanese version may have more of that. Roger Ebert gave the film a very good review and he did state that he felt we get to know and understand the characters. Here is his review.

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110524/REVIEWS/110529985

I would actually have liked to see even more violence and realism in the battle, not because I find gore entertaining, but because I think the true horror of bloody battle still was not truly depicted by Miike. We get a glimpse of the reality when the samurai gets his shoulder cut through but the rest of the battle still seemed a little too choreographed. But still an excellent battle scene in my opinion.

Miike did do an incredible job in showing the depravity of Lord Naritsugu in the rape scene and how the Lord hacks to death the husband.

I am surprised Kitsuno that you have not seen Hara Kiri in over 20 years.I think the final sword battle in the original Hara Kiri was excellent and seemed to be very realistic and brutal, not the kabuki like view seen in many other 50s or 60s films. I still feel that is the best sword fight of any film I have seen.
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tornadoes28 wrote:
We get a glimpse of the reality when the samurai gets his shoulder cut through but the rest of the battle still seemed a little too choreographed. But still an excellent battle scene in my opinion.


Compared to almost every Samurai film from the mid-20th century, and a lot of more recent ones, the violence was quite realistic. I'm not comparing it Hollywood films where realistic violence has been elevated to photorealism. Watch The Sleepy Eyes of Death and you'll see what I mean, a lot of those fights look like a brawl between the Jets and the Sharks - a choreographed dance to represent a fight.

As for not seeing Harakiri for 20 years, I already saw it, I didn't have a reason to rewatch it until now, in preparation for Miike's version.
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I agree it is more realistic than most but I think several classics did have excellent and fairly realistic fights. The battle in front of the Sakurada Gate in Samurai Assassin staring Toshiro Mifune I thought was a pretty good battle scene. No spraying blood or other silly choreography but a pretty good depiction of samurai using every bit of courage and physical strength in a fight to the death.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Miike Reply with quote
From what i have heard "Sakurada Mongai No Hen "is the film to see of the current crop of Jidai offerings .

Also it should fill the void left by certain parts of "13 Assassins" .

I do agree the Japanese Version of 13 should fill in some of the gaps and i cannot wait for kitsuno's overview so we can see what Magnet decided was just useless filler material .
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Miike Reply with quote
wicked iemon wrote:

I do agree the Japanese Version of 13 should fill in some of the gaps and i cannot wait for kitsuno's overview so we can see what Magnet decided was just useless filler material .


So far, one cut scene that I can't figure out why the heck they cut it is a scene just after Shinzaemon and Shinrokurou are drinking at the tea house - Shinrokurou is heading home, and he's attacked by five thugs with knives, and he takes them all out without even drawing his sword. It turns out the ringleader is the guy he told not to talk to him while he was gambling because he was unlucky. After they're all scattered about on the ground, the ringleader begs him for some money (even after trying to take it by force and failing) and Shinrokurou tosses him some coins and walks off disgusted. Not having the scene doesn't really hurt the movie, but it seems odd to take it out, unless they really needed to cut down on minutes.

Another scene that was cut was just bizarre. It has Naritsugu eating alone in a room, and he pauses, drops his chopsticks, dumps all the food on the table, mashes it around with his hands, and then shoves his face in it and starts eating it like a dog.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
They should have cut that last scene you described out. Without the dog eating scene, he seems to be a sadistic, violent man who has no concern for any human being but himself. With that bizarre food eating scene he is just some mentally ill lunatic.

The other scene probably was cut just to reduce the minutes.

Sakurada mongai no hen I am interested in seeing.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, another scene that I'm not sure why they cut out is where Koyata finally gets them to the road, and Shinzaemon offers him money to thank him, and he shyly says he wants to join them, and Hirayama says "hey", and hits him over the head with a hard stick, I guess to knock him out, but instead he turns around like nothing happened and says "what?" - and then another samurai does the same thing with a bigger log, which breaks, and he turns around again, and asks "What? What is it?", and they go back and forth a bit and finally agree to bring him on as #13. It was a pretty humorous scene.


So far there doesn't seem to be any big scene that was cut, but this version is about 22 minutes longer than the US release, so there must be more in here somewhere.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
A lot of screen time cut from Japanese films released in the US are comprised of 'invisible' cuts-cuts that don't eliminate scenes, but chop a few seconds off the beginning and end. Japanese films tend to linger both in the approach and exit from scenes, more so than Western films. I've heard interviews with American editors who say they cut 10-30 minutes off a film by doing this, and never had to cut an actual scene. For example, in a Godzilla film, the J-version will show 30 seconds of tanks rolling through a scene on their way to fight Gidzilla-the American version will only use five to ten seconds.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tatsunoshi wrote:
A lot of screen time cut from Japanese films released in the US are comprised of 'invisible' cuts-cuts that don't eliminate scenes, but chop a few seconds off the beginning and end. Japanese films tend to linger both in the approach and exit from scenes, more so than Western films. I've heard interviews with American editors who say they cut 10-30 minutes off a film by doing this, and never had to cut an actual scene. For example, in a Godzilla film, the J-version will show 30 seconds of tanks rolling through a scene on their way to fight Gidzilla-the American version will only use five to ten seconds.


Definitely - Mibu Gishiden had a horribly drawn out melodramatic ending that needed about 5 full minutes cut out of it. As for 13 Assassins, I have noticed a few scenes are longer and occasionally lines are there that weren't there before. No "big" scenes seem to be cut, although I'm not quite done watching it yet.

Although I'm not sure WHY scenes need to be cut - the movie is already "done" and so the editing isn't for artistic purposes. Are they implying that Westerners just like shorter movies?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That, and a lot of times it's just to allow more showings per theater without running too late.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject: 13 Assassins Reply with quote
http://twitchfilm.com/news/2011/06/takashi-miikes-13-assassins-blazes-onto-blu-raydvd-july-5th-from-magnet-releasing.php .

No deleted scenes ,Boooooooooooooo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 13 Assassins Reply with quote
Twitchfilm.com wrote:
This has been Miike's biggest film stateside both in terms of the widest opening and the most unanimous critical acclaim,...


Well, considering it was shown in I believe no more than 30 theaters nationwide since it opened and getting less and less each week, I don't think it really got a fair shot, regardless of how well received and raved about it is. It deserved a wider release, I think. Definitely would have both made a lot more money, and encouraged a larger release of Japanese films in general. But I guess I just find it hard to believe that people refuse to watch movies with subtitles.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: subs Reply with quote
Yes its something like only one in 50 will watch a film with subtitles.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
13 Assassins finally showed up in San Diego last week. Ken Theater is showing the film. In my opinion, 13 Assassins is one of the better flicks I have seen in years.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:12 pm    Post subject: 13 Assassins Reply with quote
More Miike news he will have a role in "DJANGO UNCHAINED" the new Tarantino opus ,Leonardo Di Caprio is the new Django and Franco Nero will star also.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 13 Assassins Reply with quote
wicked iemon wrote:
More Miike news he will have a role in "DJANGO UNCHAINED" the new Tarantino opus ,Leaonardo Di Caprio is the new Django and Franco Nero will star also.


It was cool seeing him in Hostel, even though probably 90% of the audience had no idea who he was.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 13 Assassins Reply with quote
kitsuno wrote:
I guess I just find it hard to believe that people refuse to watch movies with subtitles.


Never underestimate the stupidity of the American public.

wicked iemon wrote:
Yes its something like only one in 50 will watch a film with subtitles.


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