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hidatade
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:36 pm    Post subject: styles of swordsmanship Reply with quote
right now i am studying izu ryu and would like to talk to other practitioners of any style about there views and thoughts so please reply if you are a practitioner
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msr.iaidoka
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hidatade,

I am an Iaidouka in Musou Shinden Ryuu and a Kendouka. I will gladly talk shop with you. Smile


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Matt
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hidatade
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hm very interesting can i ask you a question pertaining the use of a technique mainly tsuki but also a miggi chudan cut
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msr.iaidoka
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hidatade,

Sure, what do you have in mind?


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Matt
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hidatade
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
have you ever seen a sword constructed for tsuki only it has a 4" kissaki and is folded 20 times in 1000 layers (wich could hardly be real unless of bizen origin) have you heard of it and about the miggi side chhodan no kami slash is there an effective way to cut coming from happo stance with out changing feet or repositioning wieght (this is probably a hard question sorry but its so hard to find deticated swordsman ) and im not to good with the spelling or names i apologize for that as well
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msr.iaidoka
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hidatade,

Just to make sure we are on the same pages tell me if these are the terms you are meaning as they can sometimes vary between styles:

kissaki:


chudan no kamae:


hasso no kamae:


tsuki:
Straight line stab, usually to the throat or upper chest.


Peace,

Matt
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hidatade
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
correct the lenght of kissaki was 4" and it was a tsuki sword meant for thrusting through armor it was supposedly a date family sword but the name of the sword has slipped my mind
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hidatade
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
see the seccond part of my question is hard to understand because i might have a different image in my head than you please forgive
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msr.iaidoka
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
hidatade,

OK, since we have the same terms in mind let me see if I can wrap my brain around the question.
First off, I have seen hasso no kamae done two ways, one with the right foot forward, the other with the left foot forward. Primarily I have seen it where the left foot is forward so that may skew part of the answer if your version is different.
I am not familiar with specialized types of swords so that specific sword is alien to me. A nihonto scholar would be better at answering questions on the blade.
Now for the technique(s). If I am understanding you correctly you are asking about a migi cut from chudan no kamae. This would be a short cut, lifting only slightly above the intended target before cutting. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
Also, I believe you were also asking about cutting from hasso no kamae without shifting position or feet. Using the idea that the left foot is forward for that position I would say that it is possible. A good hasso no kamae does not turn the shoulders so you remain facing squared the same as if you were in chudan no kamae. Cutting from this position should be possible and, at most, only slightly awkward if your body position relies too much on foot position.


Peace,

Matt
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hidatade
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
thank you oh, i have yet to tell you my holdings in izu ryu i am a first dan its not a very modern ryu its like sensei kuroda in wich it is very old but very effective
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Bushikan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:09 pm    Post subject: haso no kamae Reply with quote
Haso no kamae can be done several way depending on your ryu-ha. Specifically on time period and curriculim of that Ryu-ha. For example schools which practice armored combat will have thier elbows extended further out to compensate for movement in armor. Jigen Ryu, Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu, and Kashima Shinto Ryu can be seen with elbows extended. Later schools developed during the Edo period would prefer to contract the elbow to reduce the body giving the opponent less of a target. Shindo Munen Ryu is a school which does this. Some schools from the warring states period would change thier kamae and tecniques to adjust for the current era of combat. Goto Ha Yagyu Shigan Ryu did this as where the Sendai line uses movement most effictive in armor. Ono Ha Itto Ryu has a varriation called In no kamae in which the left foot is foward. If a person should strike they can deflect and immediatly striking while stepping back. One stroke thus Itto (one sword/one cut). As for me I am a student of the Yushinkan Dojo. We are guieded by "The Society to Preserve the Teachings of Nakayama Hakudo". I pracice all three arts taught by Nakayama Hakudo: Shindo Munen Ryu Kenjutsu, Shinto Muso Ryu Jojutsu, a Shinmuto Ryu - Muso Shinden Ryu Iaijutsu, and Shinken Shobu Kendo.
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hidatade
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
that is very interesting it is pleasent to make your aquitance sir please forgive my neglegance for i misplaced my password some time ago or i would have replied sooner
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Tatsunoshi
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: haso no kamae Reply with quote
Bushikan wrote:
Haso no kamae can be done several way depending on your ryu-ha. Specifically on time period and curriculim of that Ryu-ha. For example schools which practice armored combat will have thier elbows extended further out to compensate for movement in armor. Jigen Ryu, Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu, and Kashima Shinto Ryu can be seen with elbows extended. Later schools developed during the Edo period would prefer to contract the elbow to reduce the body giving the opponent less of a target. Shindo Munen Ryu is a school which does this. Some schools from the warring states period would change thier kamae and tecniques to adjust for the current era of combat. Goto Ha Yagyu Shigan Ryu did this as where the Sendai line uses movement most effictive in armor. Ono Ha Itto Ryu has a varriation called In no kamae in which the left foot is foward. If a person should strike they can deflect and immediatly striking while stepping back. One stroke thus Itto (one sword/one cut). As for me I am a student of the Yushinkan Dojo. We are guieded by "The Society to Preserve the Teachings of Nakayama Hakudo". I pracice all three arts taught by Nakayama Hakudo: Shindo Munen Ryu Kenjutsu, Shinto Muso Ryu Jojutsu, a Shinmuto Ryu - Muso Shinden Ryu Iaijutsu, and Shinken Shobu Kendo.


Bushikan, what part of Tokyo are you living in?
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Bushikan
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actually I'm in the states right now for two months then I'll be returning to Japan. But in Japan I live in Kanagawa, in a small town 10 min from Sagami Ono. I travel to Shinjuku everyday. An 1 hour 1/2 trip. Since I'm going to be back there soon I put Tokyo so I don't need to change it later.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:23 am    Post subject: boshi Reply with quote
Hi Bushikan, I was reading your post about the length of the kissaki and why it had longer length. During the Kamakurajidai the nihonto underwent many changes due primarily to the Mongol invasions. It was found that the nihonto being used had a tendency to break and a different forging method was formulated at this time. This primarily had to do with the hardening and tempering process. Also at this time a longer kissaki was developed (okissaki). I understand this had to do with the type of armour the Mongols wore which was predominately boiled leather. However it was during the shinto period where some quite large okissaki can be found and during the shin shinto period where I want to use the term daiokissaki. Research of various ryu will tell you if tsuki became a more common technique during the shinto, shin shinto periods than before but considering most koryu were developed during this same time or were altered then it may be hard to research. John
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
hidatade wrote:
... and is folded 20 times in 1000 layers (which could hardly be real unless of bizen origin)

20 folds seem a bit excessive, a sword maker would lose a huge amount of carbon in the process.

FYI: 20 folds = 1,048,576 layers
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:41 am    Post subject: folding Reply with quote
Hi Ranger, I think you are quite correct. Folding originally was done to homogenise the steel. Usually folded 8 to 10 times. BTW 20 folds equals; 1+ 2power19, not 2power20. The first fold starts from 1 to 2. 524288 layers. 20 folds would deplete the carbon. 1000 layers is normal but doesn't relate to a specific sword technique as Bushikan implies. John
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ltdomer98
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bushikan wrote:
Actually I'm in the states right now for two months then I'll be returning to Japan. But in Japan I live in Kanagawa, in a small town 10 min from Sagami Ono. I travel to Shinjuku everyday. An 1 hour 1/2 trip. Since I'm going to be back there soon I put Tokyo so I don't need to change it later.


10 min from Sagami-ono? What town? I just moved from Yamato to Sagamihara.
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msr.iaidoka
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bushikan,

I study Musou Shinden Ryuu and I have never heard of this society. Where is it headquartered?
Does the Yoshinkan Doujou you speak of have any connections to Yoshinkan Aikidou?


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マット
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sagami-Ono? Sagamigahara?

NATSUKASHIIIIIiIiIiiIiiiiiiIiiiii!

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Tony
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:13 am    Post subject: Yushinkan Reply with quote
No connection to Aikido. Every practitioner of MSRI should know about the Yushinkan.
The Yushinkan is Nakayama Hakudo's dojo he inherited from Negishi Shingoro. It has housed 5 generations of Shindo Munen Ryu sokes. Nakayama Zendo (8th soke), Saeki Souichirou (9th soke), and Ogawa Takashi sensei (10th soke). Created "The Society to protect the teaching of Nakayama Hakudo" because towards the end of Zendo's life he was distraught about how people were making thier own modifications to the art, not learning the whole curriculim, and teaching differently than he learned from his father. I'm not surprised you have not heard about it because only those teachers licensed in the Yushinkan are responsible to maintain it. Zendo only licenced two menkyos, one was Saeki Souichirou, and the other was a young Ogawa Takashi. Ogawa Sensei began his career in the Yushinkan at a young age practicing a total of 60 years now. Nakura Kiyoshi, Danzaki Sensei, and Junichi Haga all came from the Yushinkan dojo.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
AJBryant wrote:
Sagami-Ono? Sagamigahara?

NATSUKASHIIIIIiIiIiiIiiiiiiIiiiii!

Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad


Tony


Sagamihara--no "ga". But it is sandwiched between Zama and Sagami-ono. Sadly, I liked Yamato better. But my new house is nicer.
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