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goldendragon
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Tatsunoshi
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 Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:42 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting-it looks like a very interesting exhibition.
Of course, after reading some of Trevor Absolon's books and listening to his four episodes on the SA Podcast, I'll never look at these exhibitions the same way... |
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Tatsunoshi
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Looking through the exhibition catalogue, it seems most of the suits are composite sets or modern reproductions (almost every one has a 'kawari kabuto' and they all look brand new). Virtually everything in the exhibit looks newly made.
The text is your typical Western sammyrai blend of Zen/Bushido/Refined Warrior/Musashi is God stuff (not that that is unusual-most museum catalogs dealing with samurai items are). And they make some really outrageous claims such as black armor was only worn by samurai from the Date clan (despite having several black sets in the book that aren't). Also, whenever a mon used by several clans (as most were) is seen, it's automatically assumed to be from the most famous one that used it-and these armors are always assumed to be daimyo or high grade retainer sets. The author does list the SA as a reference, but...
Having said that, I'd still like to see the exhibition in person because all of the stuff looks great even if its provenance is not so much. |
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estcrh
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Tatsunoshi wrote: |
Looking through the exhibition catalogue, it seems most of the suits are composite sets or modern reproductions (almost every one has a 'kawari kabuto' and they all look brand new). Virtually everything in the exhibit looks newly made.
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Do you have any examples, I can not see much just from the exhibit advertisement. I heard that the exhibit did not allow photography which is always a warning sign. |
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lordameth
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I heard that the exhibit did not allow photography which is always a warning sign. |
A warning sign as to what?
I don't know about arms and armor or whatever specifically, but after several curatorial internships at different museums, I've been given the impression that one of the key reasons photography is often not allowed in temporary/special exhibitions is because of copyright issues.
In short, many museums allow you to take photos of their own objects, but for objects that are on loan, the permissions/rights issues are more complicated, and so, particularly in the case of private collections (as opposed to borrowing from another museum), they very often do not allow photographs specifically because of copyright reasons.
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Tatsunoshi
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| estcrh wrote: |
| Do you have any examples, I can not see much just from the exhibit advertisement. I heard that the exhibit did not allow photography which is always a warning sign. |
Well, I can't post photos (copyright infringement and all that) but...
Here's a list of various helmet ornamentations starting from the first set of armor...
1) horned demon head with whiskers and large ears
2) large tri-maedate with a huge uma-jirushi on top
3) large gold Heike crab
4) large crescent moon
5) bright red flames of Buddhist hell with a curved gold dragon emerging
6) 'rooftop demon' (akin to what you'd see on a castle roof) with an inverted tea whisk on top
7) charging gold Chinese lion
8 ) Buffalo horns on side, gold 'rising sun' disc on front
9) hyper detailed demon head painted with a multitude of colors with a beard
10) hyder detailed demon head with deer antlers
11) disc with family crest
12) cut-out Chinese characters (excerpt from Buddhist sutra) in gold
13) circular flames
14) very large gold undulating dragon that stretches across the top of the helmet
15) family crest
16) large extremely fragile looking butterfly
17) horned maedate with crescent moon
18 ) horned maedate with circle
19) large golden seashell
20) horned demon with deer antlers and a huge whisk (although this is actually mounted to the back)
21) horned maedate with family crest
22) extremely fragile looking and huge wasp
23) monkey face?
24) large flamed maedate
25) crescent moon
26) disk with 'ichinotani' bowl and whisk with rings
27) Buddhist flames
28 ) very large detailed and fragile looking centipede
29) horns and upside down heart
30) family crest and deer antlers
31) large seashell
32) another golden undulating dragon on bright red top to bottom 'Ii' armor
33) large maedate horns, again on bright red 'Ii' armor
Probably missed a few, but you get the idea. Now, keep in mind as you read the following my knowledge on armor is quite limited-I'm certainly nowhere near being any sort of authority.
As you can see, virtually all of these have an elaborate kawari kabuto. And they're all in virtually perfect, undamaged shape. No missing parts, no dings-on some spots the gilt has worn off. Even the really fragile ones are perfect. Because maedate were generally made out of rather fragile material that didn't stand up well over the years, not a whole lot of them survived intact (or at all)-especially the real elaborate stuff. And yet EVERY SET has one. This just screams out post-samurai era reproductions.
Likewise, all the armors look to be daimyo grade and also are in fantastic shape. You can see a little bit of wear here and there, and of course armors do have to be restored at times (my father-in-law just had his family armor restored, and it was quite expensive and time-consuming). Still, what are the odds of one private individual getting their hands on over 30 authentic daimyo grade armors? Possible, but not real good. Many of the pieces on some suits look to be mismatched, although honestly I don't think I'm a good judge of that.
Like I say-gorgeous armors, and I'd love to own even one of them, but I'd say the majority are post-samurai era and surely most have modern reproductions as helmet ornamentation. I'd actually like to hear what someone who does know armor would have to say. |
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ltdomer98
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Someone got his hands on a ton of zunari-kabuto and had a papier mache party.
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Mori Naritoshi
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| Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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It really is such a a shame so many of these private collections and museums don't do as much research as they should and display these objects as if they're the original or at least that they're pre-modern. I mean, I wouldn't mind them displaying something and saying "this is what it would look like", but from the sounds of it, most of these are displayed as "this is really what daimyo Y-sama or warrior Z-sama" wore.
Then again, I suppose most armor that would be intact from even "merely" the late Edo period wouldn't look very pretty anymore, let alone armor from the Sengoku or Kamakura, or would be far too expensive for the average museum to afford.
| Quote: |
| Someone got his hands on a ton of zunari-kabuto and had a papier mache party. |
Aaaand now I have the image of a curator henched over a desk wearing an apron and trying to craft accurate-looking deer antlers. Quite amusing. |
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Shogun8
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: Beliveau Exhibition |
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| I saw this exhibition. Although there were several sets of armour which were obviously composite, the general quality of the items was very good. Perhaps there were a few Meiji maedate (and maybe one or two that were outright modern), but the armour and kabuto were all authentic period pieces - mostly Edo, but still authentic. |
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