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Renzaburo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:08 pm    Post subject: "Sword Of Doom" question Reply with quote
Saw Nakadai's "Sword Of Doom" on cable last night, and the scene of the bokken match raised a question for me. In that segment, Ryunosuke objected that his opponent used an illegal move, namely tsuki which is a thrusting-type attack. Why should it be illegal? After all, it's accepted even in modern-day kendo. So why did Ryunosuke call it illegal?
If I don't get an answer in this film section, then I will re-post in the martial arts section.
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wicked iemon
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: sword of doom question Reply with quote
Hang on i can find the answer for you .
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Being as how a match with bokken used no armour as in kendo there was a convention in place to not use certain types of attack. Tsuji was one. As I understand it. John
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wicked iemon
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: sword of doom question Reply with quote
In the book the opponent advances before the signal is given and uses the tsuji which was not allowed in that particular type of match .
Ryunosuke objected because the match was a draw despite his opponent obviously cheating .
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Renzaburo
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you, Iemon and Shin No Sen, for your answers about the bokken and tsuki. I see your point about Ryunosuke and his opponent not using bogu(armor). Interestingly, in the dojo run by Mifune, the kendoists were using bogu and bamboo shinai. So this must be during or after the time of Chiba Shusaku and Nakanishi Chuta who introduced the shinai.

That gets confusing because I've also seen a shinai that was used by the Yagyu which predates many years earlier. So was it introduced by Yagyu or Nakanishi? Or maybe there were different kinds of shinai?

Because I also remember watching a television-series called Kendo Masshigura (Onward Kendo) about Chiba Shusaku. At first, the dojo in that series used bokken. Then midway through the series, they switched to the shinai. This was corroborated by what I saw in a kendo book that Chiba and Nakanishi introduced the shinai.

Then later on in Black Belt Magazine, I read that the Yagyu earlier used shinai too. So who originated the shinai? Or maybe there were different kinds of shinai?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Renzaburo wrote:
Or maybe there were different kinds of shinai?


This. Supposedly Kamiizumi Nobutsuna (who founded the Yagyu style) was the first to use a 'bamboo sword' to substitute for a bokuto. It wasn't the more modern four slat version of the shinai, though, but split bamboo in a leather sleeve. The modern four slat version was probably introduced by Nakanishi. The Chiba Dojo was probably the first dojo to employ them extensively and popularize them. Rosters of Chiba Dojo students show quite a few women, which may be the reason they were adopted.
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