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Does anyone have English translation of the Book of Liang

 
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nagaeyari
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Does anyone have English translation of the Book of Liang Reply with quote
Does anyone have a translation of the Book of Liang section on Japan?

I am curious of how the leader 彌's name is transliterated from the Chinese.

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't have the book, but, this may help you. 彌 Mi (man.), Mei (can.) 'On' Japanese, Mi, 'Kun' Japanese, Hisa etc. So the 'On' reading and Mandarin show commonality. Until someone who has the book answers. John
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do you mean 梁書 倭国伝?
http://members3.jcom.home.ne.jp/sadabe/kanbun/wakoku-kanbun4-ryosho.htm
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Do you mean 梁書 倭国伝?


Yes.

I have the Japanese -- I am curious how certain parts are represented in English.

I wonder if it is included in that "Japan in the Chinese Dynastic Histories" by Tsunoda.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it might be in "Japan in Five Ancient Chinese Chronicles" (the book Tony was an editor on). I'll check when I get home if no one else has answered by then.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, my mistake (sort of)-the five texts the book focuses on are The Chronicle of the Wei, The History of the Later Han, The History of the Jin, The History of the Southern Qi, and the History of the Song. It does have a short translation from the Liang Shu, but the only time 彌 appears is in HiMIko.

However, there's a huge appendix of Chinese names for Japanese leaders and places and 彌 seems to be rendered in English as Mi consistently throughout. ZuMI, MImakaki, FuMI, MImana, MImashi, MIMI, MIMInari, MIMItari, MIna, HiMIko, etc. These appear to be the romaji for Japanese readings.

There are also two Appendixes that give the Ancient Chinese pronunciation of the hanzi in Chronicle of the Wei and Ancient/Middle pronunciation for after that. In both cases 彌 is Mier (Mie) with a curved macron over the 'e'.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tatsunoshi wrote:
In both cases 彌 is Mier (Mie) with a curved macron over the 'e'.


That's the third tone, "shang", which indicates a falling then rising sound in the syllable.

Wikipedia wrote:
3.Third tone, low or dipping tone (上 shǎng,[4][5] literal meaning: "rising"):
has a mid-low to low descent; if at the end of a sentence or before a pause, it is then followed by a rising pitch. Between other tones it may simply be low.


And thank you for reminding me why I don't like Chinese. Eff tones with a rusty shovel.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Agreed. Were it not for Mandarin, I may have a PhD today.

(Should have gone through the history dept instead of EALC. Damned language requirements! Evil or Very Mad )
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
AJBryant wrote:
Agreed. Were it not for Mandarin, I may have a PhD today.

(Should have gone through the history dept instead of EALC. Damned language requirements! Evil or Very Mad )


Many of the history departments I'm looking at for my PhD require 2 languages. Ugh. Fortunately, some of them will count kambun as a second language.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
History required two as well, but I had French and Russian to back up the Japanese. EALC required two ASIAN languages as WELL as French or German. The irony is that I was kicking ass in Classical Chinese, but couldn't get conversational down (feckin' tones), even though I could write a composition.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
AJBryant wrote:
History required two as well, but I had French and Russian to back up the Japanese. EALC required two ASIAN languages as WELL as French or German. The irony is that I was kicking ass in Classical Chinese, but couldn't get conversational down (feckin' tones), even though I could write a composition.


So you're saying you could draw characters in the sand to communicate with a Chinese person, Tanegashima-style? Very Happy

One program I was just looking at (North Carolina, I think, which is becoming a strong, strong contender) said you could do one primary language and then waive the second language if you demonstrated proficiency in a second skill, like GIS. Personally, I think GIS would be AWESOME, since I'm pretty much doing that as it is anyways. So perhaps that's a possibility.

You should join in in the academic thread I started in the San no Maru. Having been that route, your thoughts would be appreciated.
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