Register :: Log in :: Profile   


Ancient Weekday Names

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // Japanese Language
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jdmcowan
Inkeeper
Inkeeper
Veteran Member



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 83
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:03 am    Post subject: Ancient Weekday Names Reply with quote
I am in a discussion on a linguistics board about how different cultures and languages discuss the days of the week (or whatever the smallest grouping of days is). I know the names of the 7 days of the week in modern Japanese, but it seems clear to me that they were probably created after contact with the West. Does anyone here know about how days were tracked before the current system was created? Did the Japanese even have weeks? How were the days of the months and/or weeks identified? Were they just counted or did they have names?

Thanks for any help you can provide.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shin no sen
Izumi no Kami
Izumi no Kami
Veteran Member
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 1056

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Starting in the Heian period the Chinese system.
月曜日 火曜日 水曜日 木曜日 金曜日 土曜日 日曜日
John
_________________
知恵は時間及びエネルギーである
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jdmcowan
Inkeeper
Inkeeper
Veteran Member



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 83
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I didn't realize that the current system would have been that old. Anyone know what was being done before that?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ltdomer98
Daijo Daijin
Daijo Daijin
Veteran Member



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 5456
Location: Washington (the one with all the politicians)

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
shin no sen wrote:
Starting in the Heian period the Chinese system.
月曜日 火曜日 水曜日 木曜日 金曜日 土曜日 日曜日
John


So, you're saying it's absolutely coincidence that "Monday" and "月曜日" both are "Moon day", and "Sunday" and "日曜日" are "Sun Day"? I mean, I guess none of the others line up exactly like that, but I just assumed that because those two did, the day system was created around the Meiji Period, when they realigned the calendar in a number of ways (like moving New Years, and instituting reign names as opposed to period names, etc.)

Calendar gurus? Your thoughts?
_________________
Bring it on, laddie 'Domer
The Sengoku Field Manual Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shin no sen
Izumi no Kami
Izumi no Kami
Veteran Member
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 1056

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is a link to possible origins. http://www.cjvlang.com/Dow/dowjpn.html
_________________
知恵は時間及びエネルギーである
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jdmcowan
Inkeeper
Inkeeper
Veteran Member



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 83
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Except that the same source indicates that this was not a common way to track dates in Japan until Meiji: http://www.cjvlang.com/Dow/leap.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bethetsu
Oki no Kami
Oki no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1376
Location: Center of Musashi

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Like in the present, what you normally see in documents is the day of the month.
However, the 60-day cycle, especially the 12-day branch (animal) part of the cycle, was in very common everyday use, like our weekdays. That cycle has been around and in common use for days since at least around 1250 BC in China and probably was an expansion of a 10-day week (the stem cycle). However, now it is mostly used for years.
The 7-day cycle was used only for auspices, and at one point they even corresponded to different days in the Aizu calendar..
The 7-day week names line up exactly with the Greek-Roman names. The most accepted theory in Japan seems to be that they came to China via Iran, and
Kobo Taishi brought them to Japan.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
I mean, I guess none of the others line up exactly like that, but I just assumed that because those two did, the day system was created around the Meiji Period, when they realigned the calendar in a number of ways (like moving New Years, and instituting reign names as opposed to period names, etc.)

Calendar gurus? Your thoughts?


I think they do all line up, one way or another - like doyoubi (saturday) and the "do" being the "do" from "dosei" (Saturn), or suiyoubi (wednesday), and the "sui" from "suisei" (mercury) where wednesday derives from. Strange how it lines up if it really is that old per Bethetsu.
_________________
Shop Amazon.com, support the Samurai Archives: http://amzn.to/wnDX2j

Subcribe to Blog FeedS-A Podcast homepage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // Japanese Language All times are GMT - 10 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Help the Samurai Archives




alexisRed v1.2 // Theme Created By: Andrew Charron // Samuraized By: Aaron Rister

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group