Register :: Log in :: Profile   


47 Ronin trailer
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // The Samurai Film
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tatsunoshi
Miko no Kami
Miko no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 4923
Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
If Ayame was here for the holidays I'd go go see it in the theater. But I'm waiting for the DVD/Blu-ray, just in case they include extras that might show Turnbull's involvement or have an 'historical documentary' on Chushingura (probably hosted by sammyrai expert Stan Sakai).

Otherwise, I'll probably actually enjoy the film the same way I do Makai Tenshou, Kamen Rider OOO Wonderful: The Shogun and the 21 Core Medals (Kamen Rider and Abarenbo Shogun!), or Last Samurai-just watching it as a fantasy film. Although I have to say the CGI I've seen in previews is brutally bad. Give me old school Jason and the Argonauts any day.

And this excerpt from a review of the film on Amazon just made my day:

"The Ronin succeed in overthrowing the witches and demons, and they are honored by winning the right to kill themselves. No man has the righteous power to order another man to kill himself. King David's prayer to God for all nations is that their corrupt leaders be overthrown to remind them that they are men, not gods. Those Ronin should have overthrown and killed that presumptuous Shogun too, and the god-emperor as well. Then they would have been true heroes, worthy of honor, and we Japan would not have been a terror to its neighbors in WWII.

Do not make the mistake of buying into the Buddhist hokum and suicide cult of that disgraced nation, or we will have to crush them again. "
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wicked iemon
The Lemon King
The Lemon King
Iga no Kami
Iga no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1091
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tatsunoshi wrote:
If Ayame was here for the holidays I'd go go see it in the theater. But I'm waiting for the DVD/Blu-ray, just in case they include extras that might show Turnbull's involvement or have an 'historical documentary' on Chushingura (probably hosted by sammyrai expert Stan Sakai).

Otherwise, I'll probably actually enjoy the film the same way I do Makai Tenshou, Kamen Rider OOO Wonderful: The Shogun and the 21 Core Medals (Kamen Rider and Abarenbo Shogun!), or Last Samurai-just watching it as a fantasy film. Although I have to say the CGI I've seen in previews is brutally bad. Give me old school Jason and the Argonauts any day.

And this excerpt from a review of the film on Amazon just made my day:

"The Ronin succeed in overthrowing the witches and demons, and they are honored by winning the right to kill themselves. No man has the righteous power to order another man to kill himself. King David's prayer to God for all nations is that their corrupt leaders be overthrown to remind them that they are men, not gods. Those Ronin should have overthrown and killed that presumptuous Shogun too, and the god-emperor as well. Then they would have been true heroes, worthy of honor, and we Japan would not have been a terror to its neighbors in WWII.

Do not make the mistake of buying into the Buddhist hokum and suicide cult of that disgraced nation, or we will have to crush them again. "


Mind boggling that someone could write that .

I was hoping the History Channel could abandon Ice Road Pawn Stars for a tie in doc ,hosted by Marc Dacascos ,oh well ! .
_________________
"One mans washing machine is another mans music "
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shin no sen
Izumi no Kami
Izumi no Kami
Veteran Member
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 1056

PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh, you had to mention History Channel. That channel truly sickens me sometimes. John
_________________
知恵は時間及びエネルギーである
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
narukagami
Inkeeper
Inkeeper
Veteran Member



Joined: 21 Nov 2012
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I saw it this weekend in Tokyo, in a crappy theater in Ginza, with my girlfriend.

Oddly enough... I didn't hate it, but I also didn't exactly like it. As someone who greatly enjoys Japanese-inspired/based roleplaying games like Sengoku (RIP Tony), Bushido, and Legend of the Five Rings, I actually wasn't all that bothered by the choice to add fantasy elements to the movie. What did bother me was their execution and the way they were handled.

Most of my reaction to the movie, though, was simply asking "Why?" Why did they change this or that aspect of the story? Why did they have this or that scene? Why is this or that character even on screen when they add virtually nothing to the story? Why does this movie exist?

The CGI monsters were terrible and jarring in the way they were poorly rendered, and the environments, while I'm sure they could have looked good, reminded me of a low budget B-Movie than anything with the budget this movie had.

The need for an addition of a "Token "White" Lead" was something I wish would be done away with in Hollywood, but am fully aware isn't something that's going to happen any time soon. But on the other side of that, I appreciate that his character is partially downplayed in his relation to key story moments and was little more than a Token White Guy to make Western audiences feel more comfortable, and the other side of the poorly shoehorned love story (more on that in a sec). While Reeve's character obviously played an important role in the story, never was he really called the "main protagonist." It was always Oishi that Kira's goons were after, and Reeves was just incidentally "there," it was always Oishi that was planning and plotting, and Reeves was along for the ride. Reeves was effectively just following along for most of the movie, even though the cameras were focused mainly on him.
Towards the end I was afraid they were going to pull some bullshit and have Reeves fight Kira, I was pleased that the "final battle" was a rather well done fight between Oishi and Kira, with Oishi ultimately claiming victory for the ronin, even if it was intercut by a poorly done CGI shitfest that was Reeves vs the witch lady. (That was spoilery, but do you really care?) More spoilers, in the end when the ronin are all about to commit seppuku, I was afraid Reeves would be spared by some miracle, but nope, he dies along with the rest. I actually appreciated that fact. (Even though Oishi's son was spared so as to "not deny the world his bloodline.")
Oddly enough, it was my GF and other Japanese moviegoers I overheard that had the problem with Reeves NOT being saved!

I didn't think the acting was all that bad. Some of the actors (particularly Rinko Kikuchi) seemed to actually be legitimately enjoying themselves. Reeves was a robot, of course, but it doesn't seem like he's capable of playing anything else anymore.

As for the love story, it was very forced and poorly shoehorned into the story. It pretty much begins with the narrator just flat out telling the audience "oh by the way, they're in LEEEEEEERRRRRRRRVE" and enters Star Wars Prequel levels of shitastic, gut wrenching writing. Not only that, but with the fact that Asano's daughter was promised to Kira and the wedding date became the revenge deadline, it ends up completely killing the whole "loyalty and revenge" aspect of the story and turning it into a "save the princess!" adventure. Halfway into the second act of the movie you end up completely forgetting they even wanted revenge as the whole story just focuses on rescuing Asano's daughter.

And now the stupid little detail that bothered me the most about the movie: The costume design... what the fuck? What was with those weird pseudo-Chinese hunting getups in the beginning? Where the fuck did they get these designs from? What was that shit the Shogun was wearing? Why did the big dude in the armor (who was wasted, by the way, I WANTED to see a cheesy, over the top fight scene with him) just look like something slapped together from the 300 prop room? Did none of the Japanese actors on hand say anything about it? Did any of them go "wait, isn't this movie during Edo Japan? Why are we wearing this weird Chinese-esque shit?"

And to close off with an interesting anecdote, in the closing narration they expound on how the story of the 47 Ronin is such an important part of Japanese culture. My girlfriend, and a few of the older patrons I overheard (on the way out I was trying to keep an ear out to see if I could pick up what the Japanese viewers' reactions to the film was) all commented that "if they understand the story is so important to Japan, then why did they make the movie like this?" Laughing

All in all, I actually think the movie could have been good. If all they did was bill it as "a fantasy movie drawing inspiration from the tale of the 47 Ronin" as opposed to giving it the Stan Sakai treatment of "its totally the real story even though it takes about 2 seconds of research to tell we're full of shit!" got a costume designer who wasn't on crack, tried a little harder on the CGI (or used more, heaven forbid, PRACTICAL effects) and got more of the actors to give a damn, it might have even been great. I'd actually like to see more fantasy movies that draw from other cultures and aren't your typical Tolkien-inspired fare, and 47 Ronin could have been the film to open that door, but instead probably completely bricked up the doorway.

Knowing how Hollywood operates, they'll blame the movie's failure on moviegoers not wanting to see Japanese samurai movies as opposed to any of the numerous reasons the movie wasn't all that good.
_________________
"When the Portuguese first landed upon Japan’s shores in 1543, they stroked their handlebar mustaches and said, “You know, that whole honorable swordsman thing is working well for you, but what you really need is our brand of GUNshido.” They then shot the word “PORTUGAL” into the side of the Emperor’s palace." - Omri Petitte, PC Gamer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wicked iemon
The Lemon King
The Lemon King
Iga no Kami
Iga no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1091
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:00 am    Post subject: 47 Ronin Trailer Reply with quote
Its funny ,before the director got the sack ,he left a four hour print with minimal Keanu .
The studio cut it and of course added dollops of "stone face " .
Interviews Rinsch gave before his termination suggest he was a lot more reverential to the story and all things Japanese than the good folks at Universal .
While i do not think it would be good in any version ,it would be interesting to see his original vision .
_________________
"One mans washing machine is another mans music "
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
lordameth
Awa no Kami
Awa no Kami
Veteran Member
2009 Benefactor
2009 Benefactor



Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1821
Location: 南加州

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Prof Jonathan Dresner has a very nice, brief, review of the film here: http://hnn.us/article/154304.

To give just an excerpt from his review, entitled "The Many Things "47 Ronin" Gets Wrong About Shogun-Era Japan (And the One Thing It Gets Right)":

Quote:
Nearly everything in the movie, from a cultural and historical standpoint, is questionable or wrong. Nothing unusual about that, but the movie credits two historical consultants, and begins and ends with voiceover claiming historical and cultural authenticity: "To know the story of the 47 Ronin is to know the heart of old Japan" [quotation approximate; I was writing in the dark as quickly as I could on a first viewing. I'm not going back.] Even discounting the "witches and demons," the movie frames the Tokugawa Shogunate (1603-1868) as "Ancient," "Feudal," and shoguns as "an absolute ruler," none of which is helpful. It perpetuates the myth of samurai as "master swordsmen" and "protectors" and the conclusion praises them for enacting "the old ways of Bushido" as though there were a continuous tradition which had degraded in the contemporary age (but which the Shogun had no desire to actually revive)

...

it's a shame that more media creators don't trust the original source material, the actual history, to be captivating, when it so often is much more interesting and dramatic than the fictions.

_________________
My blog on Japanese art & history: http://chaari.wordpress.com

紫水晶殿 - The Amethyst Lord
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
heron
萩守
Veteran Member
2009 Benefactor
2009 Benefactor



Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 1136
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's a great review - I've shared it on my Fb page. I'm disappointed that this film sounds like such a failure. I agree with narukagami:

Quote:
I'd actually like to see more fantasy movies that draw from other cultures and aren't your typical Tolkien-inspired fare, and 47 Ronin could have been the film to open that door, but instead probably completely bricked up the doorway.


Universal bought the rights to Tales of the Otori ten years ago - I guess they will never make the movies now Sad But all things considered I think I am relieved Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
wicked iemon
The Lemon King
The Lemon King
Iga no Kami
Iga no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1091
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: 47 Ronin Trailer Reply with quote
The inside scoop ,or Universals Samurai Disaster .

http://variety.com/2013/film/news/47-ronin-box-office-bomb-1201012170/?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breakingnewsalert
_________________
"One mans washing machine is another mans music "
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
shikisoku
Yamashiro no Kami
Yamashiro no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 2638
Location: 天領 Tama

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Universal hosted a world premiere of the film in Japan — it needed support from the region, where the cast was well recognized. But it never gained traction there, despite being released in an alternate edit specifically designed for Japanese audiences. Market research showed the key demographic of young men didn’t buy enough tickets.


If the movie wasn't SF fantasy, Japanese would go watch it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
narukagami
Inkeeper
Inkeeper
Veteran Member



Joined: 21 Nov 2012
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
shikisoku wrote:
Quote:
Universal hosted a world premiere of the film in Japan — it needed support from the region, where the cast was well recognized. But it never gained traction there, despite being released in an alternate edit specifically designed for Japanese audiences. Market research showed the key demographic of young men didn’t buy enough tickets.


If the movie wasn't SF fantasy, Japanese would go watch it.
Pretty sure that's the least of the issues Japanese audiences had with the film.
_________________
"When the Portuguese first landed upon Japan’s shores in 1543, they stroked their handlebar mustaches and said, “You know, that whole honorable swordsman thing is working well for you, but what you really need is our brand of GUNshido.” They then shot the word “PORTUGAL” into the side of the Emperor’s palace." - Omri Petitte, PC Gamer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tatsunoshi
Miko no Kami
Miko no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 4923
Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
lordameth wrote:
Prof Jonathan Dresner has a very nice, brief, review of the film here: http://hnn.us/article/154304.


Great review, and you have to love a college professor that links to the Shogun-ki.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tatsunoshi
Miko no Kami
Miko no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 4923
Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
narukagami wrote:
Oddly enough... I didn't hate it, but I also didn't exactly like it. As someone who greatly enjoys Japanese-inspired/based roleplaying games like Sengoku (RIP Tony), Bushido, and Legend of the Five Rings, I actually wasn't all that bothered by the choice to add fantasy elements to the movie. What did bother me was their execution and the way they were handled.


I have a feeling that's going to be my reaction to the film. And since my wife is coming to visit after all, we might see it this weekend (if it hasn't already been pulled!).

narukagami wrote:
tried a little harder on the CGI (or used more, heaven forbid, PRACTICAL effects)


And that's the real problem with CGI. Yes, it can show things practical effects can't. But even the best CGI looks too shiny, sharp, and phony, and the worst just ruins pretty much any sense of immersion. Practical effects, even when they're terrible, still have a certain believability, realism, and if nothing else, charm.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brick McBurly
外人タレントスーパースター
Veteran Member



Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 292
Location: 東映太秦映画村

PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
heron wrote:
Universal bought the rights to Tales of the Otori ten years ago - I guess they will never make the movies now Sad But all things considered I think I am relieved Very Happy


An' here I was all set to be the token white guy and play Iida Sadamu, but the Studio wasn't willin' to loan me out to Universal (it was my week to work the Ninja Star Toss and the OL Massage Booth at the theme park). Gotta think that's what stalled production. Sorry, LH. But I betcher even more relieved now.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
My wife wants to see it, so I'll probably be subjected to some Keanu tomorrow.
_________________
Shop Amazon.com, support the Samurai Archives: http://amzn.to/wnDX2j

Subcribe to Blog FeedS-A Podcast homepage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tatsunoshi
Miko no Kami
Miko no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 4923
Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I never did get out to see this since when my wife visited we got hammered by a couple of huge snow and ice storms and it was -10F. But I did just preorder the Blu-ray/3D Blu-ray/DVD/Ultraviolet superduper ultimate special complete gold collector's edition. Here's the extras:

-Digital Copy of 47 Ronin (Subject to expiration. Go to NBCUCodes.com for details.)
-Includes UltraViolet (Subject to expiration. Go to NBCUCodes.com for details.)
-Deleted Scenes
-Re-forging the Legend
-Keanu & Kai
-Steel Fury: The Fights of 47 Ronin
-Myths, Magic & Monsters: The FX of 47 Ronin

Pretty mundane lineup. What, no director's commentary Laughing ? That might have been more amusing than the film. But you'd think they'd have some kind of commentary track. Re-forging the Legend looks like it might examine the historical background, but then again it might just go into the development/screenwriting process/etc of the film.

If you want to be scared, go read some of the reviews on Amazon written by Modern Sammyrai.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wicked iemon
The Lemon King
The Lemon King
Iga no Kami
Iga no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 1091
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:18 pm    Post subject: 47 Ronin Reply with quote
I read those Amazon reviews ,really scary .

To be honest i downloaded this and made it through about 10 min's ,It felt like something from the SYFY Channel , the thing that got me was the lame dialog and bad acting .
_________________
"One mans washing machine is another mans music "
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ltdomer98
Daijo Daijin
Daijo Daijin
Veteran Member



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 5456
Location: Washington (the one with all the politicians)

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tatsunoshi wrote:
But I did just preorder the Blu-ray/3D Blu-ray/DVD/Ultraviolet superduper ultimate special complete gold collector's edition.


Why? You do know that you can buy other, more worthwhile things with that money, right? And that "other, more worthwhile things" pretty much includes ANYTHING that money can buy?
_________________
Bring it on, laddie 'Domer
The Sengoku Field Manual Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tatsunoshi
Miko no Kami
Miko no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 4923
Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
Why? You do know that you can buy other, more worthwhile things with that money, right? And that "other, more worthwhile things" pretty much includes ANYTHING that money can buy?


Because I love watching comedies, and monsters and fox witches are kewl. Laughing Then I use them as non-lethal throwing stars on missions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tatsunoshi
Miko no Kami
Miko no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 4923
Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Saw the movie-was going to post my thoughts here but decided to put them up on the Shogun-ki instead.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Any review that can work in Don "The Predator" Frye has to be considered the last word Laughing
_________________
Shop Amazon.com, support the Samurai Archives: http://amzn.to/wnDX2j

Subcribe to Blog FeedS-A Podcast homepage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tatsunoshi
Miko no Kami
Miko no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 4923
Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
After his star turn in "Godzilla: Final Wars", he would have been a natural for the Dejima UFC pit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Isogai
Artisan
Artisan
Veteran Member
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
As it was predicted - this movie totally suxxs Crying or Very sad
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm going to watch it Saturday. Can't wait Party time!
_________________
Shop Amazon.com, support the Samurai Archives: http://amzn.to/wnDX2j

Subcribe to Blog FeedS-A Podcast homepage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kitsuno
Forum Shogun
Forum Shogun



Joined: 04 May 2006
Posts: 9481
Location: Honolulu, HI

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow, what a terrible movie. Almost as bad as Bunraku. The pacing of the movie is terrible, and the editing is terrible, and it's painfully obvious that extra scenes with Keanu were shoehorned in willy-nilly. A weird ride through bizzaro land, from the magical land of Ako to the Pirates of the Caribbean just off the coast of the Scottish highlands, to Darth Vader's cave on Dagobah that leads to the Birdmen of H.R. Giegerland... it's quite the mess.
_________________
Shop Amazon.com, support the Samurai Archives: http://amzn.to/wnDX2j

Subcribe to Blog FeedS-A Podcast homepage
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // The Samurai Film All times are GMT - 10 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Help the Samurai Archives




alexisRed v1.2 // Theme Created By: Andrew Charron // Samuraized By: Aaron Rister

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group