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rikoseishin
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:06 am    Post subject: Nodachi Anyone? Reply with quote
I was flipping throyugh Aoi Art and foung this:

http://www.aoi-art.com/sword/katana/06006.html
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nice, but I personally like this one: http://www.aoi-art.com/fittings/500-549/05502.html

(Though I have to admit, the actual Sodegarami at http://www.aoi-art.com/fittings/500-549/05503.html is an interesting variant of the standard.)
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wow, I must have been spazed out or something when I posted. Look at all the typos Embarassed

Yeah, those are interesting. However, the man reason I posted this was to help someone out. Because lately there has been an increase in interest in nodachi. And most who have them have had to settle for a shinsakuto, which is not neccesarrily a bad thing Smile. But this is a chance for those individuals to own a HIZEN nodachi. Which I have got to admit I have never seen before, let alone even thought of hearing about Shocked
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another nodachi, and man is this one a whopper, and it is even fitted in handachi koshirae Shocked

http://yakiba.com/O-dachi_tadamitsu.htm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rikoseishin wrote:
Another nodachi, and man is this one a whopper, and it is even fitted in handachi koshirae Shocked

http://yakiba.com/O-dachi_tadamitsu.htm


Honestly, I read "Odachi" in the description...
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rikoseishin
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Eh...nodachi or odachi, still a big blade. Besides I can be stupid sometimes, just ask Kit Embarassed

And is it just me or does this kinda lok like something that Sasaki would have used. I knwo it is way to big, but the koshirae and just the blade its self makes me think of what the Drying Pole would have looked like.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah, I heard that Kojiro had a wicked long pole. Laughing
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rikoseishin
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah I guess he would have tohave a big pair (of swords) to go up against the legendary, undisputed Miyamoto Musahsi Just Kidding
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote:
Yeah, I heard that Kojiro had a wicked long pole. Laughing


Whenever you have to name your weapon, to me that shows an inferiority complex.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
rikoseishin wrote:
Yeah I guess he would have tohave a big pair (of swords) to go up against the legendary, undisputed Miyamoto Musahsi Just Kidding


A big pair indeed. Very Happy especially if you read John Carroll's Lightning in the Void, and buy into his cup of muck that Kojiro was a man of about 70 when he fought that young, dirty, whipper snapper named Miyamoto Musasheeee.

In all seriousness, regardless of what is truth and legend, I do love Yoshikawa's Musashi for being a great read. It is a classic. And in that novel, it seems that poor Akemi did get her share of Kojiro's sadistic long pole.

And back to real nodachi talk-- I recently got some of those small scale models of sengoku era daimyo swords, and when I got Uesugi Kenshin's nodachi, I was a bit surprised by the length of the blade compared to the image of other nodachi I have seen in katana shops and museums I was also a bit surprised by the sword's construction. It didn't have a hand guard (unless I lost it when opening the packaging). Does anyone know anything about Kenshin's nodachi? If so, can you share some details? Again, the sword is quite unique looking.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote:

And back to real nodachi talk-- I recently got some
of those small scale models of sengoku era daimyo
swords, and when I got Uesugi Kenshin's nodachi, I
was a bit surprised by the length of the blade
compared to the image of other nodachi I have seen
in katana shops and museums I was also a bit
surprised by the sword's construction. It didn't
have a hand guard (unless I lost it when opening the
packaging). Does anyone know anything about
Kenshin's nodachi? If so, can you share some
details? Again, the sword is quite unique looking.


Hi Obenjio. You've lost no Tsuba.
This is a specific feature of some Uesugi Kenshin's
swords.
Not sure if Kenshin was the first to use such
an "Aikuchi" (mouth-to mouth) mounting for blades
longer then a Tanto but for sure he was the most
famous, till to the point this style of mounting on
longer blades is nicknamed "Kenshin style". Your
model is historically correct, even if I'm not aware
of any Nodachi used by Kenshin (are you sure it is
not labeled as a Kodachi in the
instructions ?).
He had some regular lenght Katana and Wakizashi
mounted this way.
An example of Wakizashi hereunder :

from Kanzan Sato's "The japanese sword",Kodansha
intl ltd Tokyo ISBN 0 87011 562 6 page 83 picture 53

quote...

Guardless short sword decorated in black laquer.
Wood, hilt covered in black-laquered rayskin, bound
with purple silk threads. Muromachi period,
Naga collection. This mounting was used by the
warlord Uesugi Kenshin ( 1530-78 ). The austere
scabbard has the rounded cross section typical of all
mounts from the later Muromachi onwards. There
are two Kodzuka, one on either side of the hilt,
an unusual feature.We would normally expect either a
Kodzuka on one side only or a kodzuka on one side
and a Kogai on the other side.

...unquote


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Carlo,

Thanks for this. Again, I am in China at the moment and don't have access to the model blade or any of my references on Japanese swords. I am definitely not an expert on Japanese swords, so I really appreciate this forum and the expertise of the participants. About a month ago, I did by a couple of books when I was at the Bizen Sword Museum & Workshops, but haven't even opened them yet as there are ton of other books I need to get through first.

After thinking about it a little more, it probably would be more appropriate to label the sword of Kenshin's in question as a slightly longer than average tachi type. It just wouldn't make sense for Kenshin to have a nodachi. Would it? Now this begs a question-- would Kojiro's sword, the Drying Pole, actually be a considered a longer than average tachi or a nodachi? I remember in Yoshikawa's book, it was described as having tachi-type fittings which made it difficult for him to wear it katana-style.

I've seen some massive nodachi type swords but I think I am having trouble distinguishing where to draw the line between a longer than average katana/tachi vs "regular" nodachi. I have also seen and even handled a bakumatsu-era katana of longer length than a standard katana, but when I questioned what type of sword it was because of the considerably longer blade, I was told it was still considered a katana and the blade's length was made in correspondence to the size of it's owner, who must have been at least 180 cm tall. I am 187 cm tall, so the antique sword shop dealer (in Aoyama's antique mall next to Hanae Mori) said this size katana was more appropriate for someone my height.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote:

I've seen some massive nodachi type swords but I think I am having trouble distinguishing where to draw the line between a longer than average katana/tachi vs "regular" nodachi. I have also seen and even handled a bakumatsu-era katana of longer length than a standard katana, but when I questioned what type of sword it was because of the considerably longer blade, I was told it was still considered a katana and the blade's length was made in correspondence to the size of it's owner, who must have been at least 180 cm tall. I am 187 cm tall, so the antique sword shop dealer (in Aoyama's antique mall next to Hanae Mori) said this size katana was more appropriate for someone my height.


It's hard to properly give a lenght range for
Nodachi/Odachi. The measures for katana/tachi,
Wakizashi and tanto were established as "standard"
only in Edo period, previously there were no reason
to have such distinctions. A sort of definition is
that a Nodachi (field-sword) is a bit longer and
heavier then a regular katana but is still used by a
single man.On the contrary the Odachi have to be
unsheated with the help of someone else. Some Odachi
were carried by Kerai or Ashigaru by foot and the
High rank Samurai grabbed the tsuka from horseback,
unsheating it for actual fighting.
Some were carried by one ashigaru and another (or a
Samurai), still by foot, unsheated it. Usually
Nanbokucho and around when *every* weapon reached longer lenght then previous ones.
Very difficult to fix where a Nodachi ends
and an Odachi begins and so for the Katana/Nodachi.
Exaggerated lenght not always means it wasn't
actually used for combat...
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks again, Carlo! I have much to study!! Smile
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rikoseihin,

Got to love the little peasant girl holding the sword...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
ltdomer98 wrote:
Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote:
Yeah, I heard that Kojiro had a wicked long pole. Laughing


Whenever you have to name your weapon, to me that shows an inferiority complex.


Or some kind of fetish or something. Laughing

I like this one:

http://yakiba.com/O-dachi_tadamitsu.htm

I would love to actually see a samurai attempting to use some of the larger nodachis I've seen. Some of them look as though they would be so unweildy that they would put the samurai using it in more danger, than help him be effective in battle. I can't remember off hand what movie it was that I saw three samurai spinning in a circle holding a large odachi, but I always wondered how effective that really was.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
niitsu kakunoshin wrote:
I can't remember off hand what movie it was that I saw three samurai spinning in a circle holding a large odachi, but I always wondered how effective that really was.


Samurai Banners. One of the funniest and most entertaining samurai battle scenes ever filmed.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:36 pm    Post subject: Kenshin's sword Reply with quote
Here is apicture of Kenshin's sword as described by Carlo. John

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
THANKS !! that's the Nodachi I've never seen before.
> 3 shaku, correct mounting for kenshin.
Great!

mmmmm... TOTAL lenght... damn, why they didn't give the nagasa lenght as should have been made ?
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Last edited by Tsubame1 on Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shin no sen-san,

Yessss!!!! That's it! Thanks for posting that picture.

Hey Carlo, it's an impressive piece, yes?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Obenjo Kusanosuke wrote:
Shin no sen-san,

Yessss!!!! That's it! Thanks for posting that picture.

Hey Carlo, it's an impressive piece, yes?


Yes, it is. definitively a Nodachi, if the lenght stated is correct in Nagasa and not including the tang (as sometimes is made by mistake).
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tatsunoshi wrote:
niitsu kakunoshin wrote:
I can't remember off hand what movie it was that I saw three samurai spinning in a circle holding a large odachi, but I always wondered how effective that really was.


Samurai Banners. One of the funniest and most entertaining samurai battle scenes ever filmed.


That's right! "Furin Kazan" I love that movie.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
ummm nice Nodachi...a bit to long but then i suppose thats a good thing
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lol...welll that is a nodachi for you, just a "bit" to long.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just received a gift from my friend Paul Martin.
A book about newly made Koshirae matching antique
ones. There are other 3 (two katana and one Tanto)
in Kenshin' style I never saw before.
As this is supposed to be a book about replicas of
real and ancient historically important koshirae
I wonder how many like these are out there...

Sorry I don't dare to scan them because of I fear
to ruin the spine of the book. They are very similar
to the already posted ones.
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