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Reading Taketori Monogatari
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Bethetsu
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here is my take on it.
Don't worry about copying Shirane's text. I like working from the old one. I do as much as I can with that, then look at Ôi's version and your posting to get or modify what I don't understand.

つみの限はてぬれはかくむかふるを翁はなきなけくあたはぬ事也 はやいたし奉れと云
Because the limit of (punishment for )her sin has been reached, it is not a suitable thing that (you) old man cry and mourn at our coming to get her in this way. Hurry and bring her out!"
mukau is the moon people's arrival to get her, not the old man's receiving her. It has been used for that several times in this chapter. See where she tells the woodcutter かの国よりむかへに人々まうてこんす So here, "you are weeping at our coming to get her."
atau can mean either possible or suitable. I translated "suitable" as above and Ôi does also, and I think it is the most natural, but Kojien and apparently Shirane take it as two sentences: "You are weeping. It is something you cannot do anything about." The use of Ookina wa would support that Ookina is the subject of nageku rather than koto nari, but I still like "suitable" with Tsumi…koto nari as one sentence better.

翁こたへて申かくや姫を養奉る事廿余年に成ぬかた時との給ふにあやしくなり侍りぬ 又こと所にかくや姫と申人そおはし 爰ますらんと云におはするかくや姫はおもき病をしたまへはえいておはすまし {方所に、かぐや姫と申す人ぞおはしますらむ。といふ。ここにおはするかぐや姫}
The middle part of the above text doesn't seem to make sense, so I used the other texts.
The old man answered, "It has been over twenty years that I have been rearing Kaguya-hime. When you say (notamau--one word) "a short time," I start humbly wondering. Or there may be a personage named Kaguya-hime in a different place.
The Kaguya-hime who is here is gravely ill and there is no way she should leave."
えいておはすまし e得 ide owasu maji cannot be expected to go out.

と申せはその返事はなくて屋のうへにとふ車をよせていさかくや姫きたなき所にいかてか久しくおはせむと云
(The king) did not answer him when he said this, but brought the flying carriage to above the house and said, "Now! Kaguya-hime! Why do you linger in this filthy place?"
たてこめたる所の戸即たゝあきにあきぬかうしともゝ人はなくしてあきぬ
The doors of the shut-up place immediately opened up completely. The lattices also opened of themselves.
即たゝ Not just "at that time," but "immediately." Both words mean "immediately," "without a space in between."
aki ni aki-nu. V (RY) ni V stresses the verb's meaning. (Kôjien)
aki-nu I don't see Shirane's meaning "there was nothing to prevent the doors from being opened." "opened (intransitive verb) completely" fits grammatically and contextually. Especially since tatekomeru means 戸・障子などをしめきる (Kojien, of course quoting Taketori).
Kôshi-domo (above text and Ôi) specified plural again.

女いたきてゐたるかくや姫とに出ぬえとゝむましけれはたゝさしあふきてなきをり竹取心まとひてなきふせる
Kaguya-hime, whom the old woman had been (in the room) holding, went out. The old woman, having no way of stopping her, just staying there looked upward and wept. The wood cutter with an anguished heart wept lying on his face.

(Old) onna is the subject of idaku and e-todomu, K. is the subject of ide-nu
That is how you seem to interpret it.

maji-- here -something could not be expected to happen …dekisô ni nai. …hazu ga na.

所によりてかくや姫云こゝにも心にもあらてかくまかりのほらんをたに見をくり給へといへともなにしに悲しきにみ送りたてまつらむ
Kaguya-hime drew near and said, "Now, though it is against my will (kokoro arade) I am doing thus. Please at least see me off as I ascend." But (he said) "Why should I see you off in this sorrow?"
koko ni "sate, sokode yobikake (Kojien)
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heron
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, your translation of the kaku mukafuru wo okina wa nakinageku atawanu koto nari phrase is certainly correct: it is similar in HM too, but I am still hung up on the fact that makauru is rentaikei, and Shirane glosses the wo as a conjunctive particle, so I don't think I understand the grammar here.

koko is glossed as first person pronoun by Shirane, and that's how Helen McCullough's translation seems to read it too.

I'll try and finish the section in Shirane in the next couple of weeks and then I'll have to take a break, but maybe we can start something else in January?
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Bethetsu
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
My classical dictionary says the conjunctive wo tends to be a loose connection, while this is quite direct, so I think it is probably = mukauru koto wo nageku. But the conjunctive wo also takes rentai kei, so that is no problem. One possible interpretation with the conjunction might be, you are crying although we are doing good for her by taking her away from this filthy place.

"Koko" as "here," a first-person substitute certainly makes sense; that is probably right.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
我をはいかにせよとて捨てはのほり給ふそくしてゐておはせねと啼てふせれは御心まとひぬふみをかき置てまからむ恋しからん折々とり出てみ給へとて打なきてかくことはゝこの国にむまれぬるとならはなけかせ奉らぬほとまて侍らてすき別侍るこそかへす/\ほいなくこそおほえ侍れぬきをくきぬをかたみとみ給へ月の出たらむ夜は見をこせ給へ見すて奉りてまかるそらよりもおちぬへき心ちするとかきをく天人のなかにもたせたるはこあり天の羽衣いれりまた有はふしの薬入りひとりの天人いふつほなる御薬たてまつれきたなき所の物きこしめしたれは御心ちあしからむ物そとてもてよりたれは聊なめ給てすこしかたみとてぬき置給ふきぬにつゝまんとすれは有天人つゝませすみそをとり出てきせんとすそのときにかくや姫しはしまてと云きぬきせつる人は心ことになるなりと云物一こといひをくへきこと有けりといひてふみかく天人をそしと心もとなかり給ふかくや姫ものしらぬことなの給そとていみしくしつかにおほやけに御文たてまつり給ふあはてぬさま也かくあまたの人を給てとゝめさせ給へとゆるさぬむかひまふて来てとり出まかりぬれはくちおしくかなしき事宮つかへつかふまつらすなりぬるもかくわつらはしきみにて侍れは心えすおほしめされつらめとも心つよく承はらすなりにしことなめけなるものにおほしめし留られぬるなむ心にとまり侍りぬとて

今はとて天のはころもきるおりそ君をあはれとおもひいてける
とてつほのくすりそへてとうのちうしやうをよひよせてたてまつらす中將に天人とりてつたふ中將とりつれはふと天の羽衣打きせ奉りつれは翁をいとをしかなしとおほしつることもうせぬ此きぬきつる人は物おもひなくなりにけれは車に乗て百人はかり天人くしてのほりぬ

‘What are you saying I should do, after you abandon me and ascend? I wish you would take me with you when you leave,’ he said weeping. Seeing him lie prostrate, Kaguya-hime’s heart was moved.

‘I will write a letter for you before I leave. In those times when you miss me dearly, take it out and look at it.’

So saying she wrote some words:

‘Because I was not born into this word, I have not been able to serve you in a way that would not cause you grief.

(Shirane’s suggestion is the text is corrupted and there is a sentence missing: so another attempt would be: If I had been born into this world (I would have served you) so as not to cause you grief, but I was not able to so serve you.)

I regret repeatedly and deeply that we have to be forever separated. Please regard the robe, that I have taken off, as a keepsake. On nights when the moon appears look at me from afar. From the sky where I have left you behind I will no doubt feel as if I am falling.’

Thus she wrote.

Among the heavenly beings there was a box that they had one of them hold. Inside was a feathered robe from heaven. And in another box was an elixir of immortality. One of the beings said, ‘Please drink the elixir in the flask, for the things you have eaten and drunk in this unclean place have probably made you ill.’

When he approached, saying this, she had small taste and, thinking she would treat it too as something of a keepsake, she started to wrap it in the robe she had taken off, but one of the heavenly beings tried to stop her. They attempted to dress her in the robe they had taken out of the box.

Now Kaguya-hime said, ‘Wait a little. Because I’ve heard that people’s hearts change when they put on this robe, I must utter some words first.’ So saying, she wrote the letter.

The heavenly beings became impatient at the delay, but Kaguya-hime said, ‘Don’t speak of things you know nothing about,’ and very calmly addressed the letter to the emperor. She seemed completely unruffled.

(Shirane’s extract leaves a few phrases out here.)

‘The time has come; I put on the feathered robe and recall you, my lord, with deep emotion.’

So saying, she attached the letter to the flask with the elixir, and called over the Counsellor Middle Captain to give them to him. The heavenly being took them and entrusted them to him. When the Middle Captain took them, and she put on the feathered robe, suddenly all memory of the old man and his pitiful sadness completely disappeared. Dressed in the robe, all thoughts of grief gone, she entered the carriage and, accompanied by about one hundred heavenly beings, ascended upwards.
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