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MLanteigne
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:27 pm    Post subject: Yamato clan? Reply with quote
I know the Yamato clan came to prominence in the 4th century AD in Japan, but what happened after their decline?

I'm asking for a friend who's last name is Yamato. Where they also a clan during the feudal era? A google search seems to show mostly the early period.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The current Emperor of Japan is Yamato. They are contiguous from the very start. If you think there was no court hijinks the bloodline is still going. John
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narukagami
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
shin no sen wrote:
The current Emperor of Japan is Yamato. They are contiguous from the very start. If you think there was no court hijinks the bloodline is still going. John
Like the Nanboku-chō period?

If I remember correctly didn't it result in technically "breaking" the "true" lineage?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
narukagami wrote:
shin no sen wrote:
The current Emperor of Japan is Yamato. They are contiguous from the very start. If you think there was no court hijinks the bloodline is still going. John
Like the Nanboku-chō period?

If I remember correctly didn't it result in technically "breaking" the "true" lineage?
Both Go-Daigo (south) and Go-Fushimi (ancestor of northern) were great grandsons of Go-Saga. in fact, Go-Fushimi was emperor before Go-Daigo. Apparently there was an agreement to pass the throne back and forth from one branch to another, and it was kept sort of a few times, but Go-Daigo broke the agreement.

But as for the meaning of Yamoto, it is a geographical name, in particular, the name of the province that corresponds to the modern Nara. Where the early court was centered.
Yamato as a family(?) name is unusual.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It is just a dynastic name. This touches a very personal relationship between the Emperor and the people. It is a divine lineage and empowered by mandate of heaven. Anything that would diminish the purity of lineage would be anathema. John
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Awesome thanks guys!
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
There is no such thing as Yamato clan. The Imperial Family are never attested to having used it as their surname or dynastic name, and few others have ever done it, until recently.

In China, by the end of Zhou dynasty at least, all people (rulers, nobles and commoners) had a hereditary, patrilineal surname, and the rulers had a dynasty name distinct from the surname of ruling family. For example the founder of Han Dynasty was one Liu Bang. He and his father already had the surname Liu back when they were peasants. When Liu Bang became emperor, he adopted "Han" as a dynastic name distinct from the dynastic name of the previous dynasty "Qin".

Korea followed the example of China: rulers adopted surnames, for example Silla rulers took surname Kim.

And when Silla was overthrown, Koryo chose to adopt the new name Koryo and treat the country name Silla as a dynastic name as well.

Japan was different. Japanese nobles adopted clan names. But commoners did not, and neither did Imperial family. The princes of Imperial family had titles and personal names, but no surname distinct from titles.

The only exception, ever, was in 5th century, when Japanese kings in diplomatic intercourse with China referred to themselves as if "Wa", which was the name of the country, also was the surname of the ruler. But when they resumed diplomatic relationship with China in 7th...8th century, they did not use any surname any longer, and never have since.

Until the end of 19th century, therefore, Japanese nobles had surnames but neither commoners nor Imperial family did. In the end of 19th century, the government required the commoners to adopt surnames. This left the Imperial family alone distinguished by their lack of a surname.

The Imperial family must have been so far from feeling Yamato to be their own surname or in any way sensitive that they did not object when someone else adopted it as a surname.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Yamato clan? Reply with quote
MLanteigne wrote:
I know the Yamato clan came to prominence in the 4th century AD in Japan, but what happened after their decline?


Where does the Yamato clan story come from?
I can't find it in Japanese web sites.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: Yamato clan? Reply with quote
shikisoku wrote:
MLanteigne wrote:
I know the Yamato clan came to prominence in the 4th century AD in Japan, but what happened after their decline?


Where does the Yamato clan story come from?
I can't find it in Japanese web sites.


Because the Japanese know better than use the term "Yamato clan" for the Imperial Family.
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