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evalerio
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:11 am    Post subject: Help with bio Reply with quote
Working on heraldry for the Uesugi army at 4th Kawanakajima and Otate no Ran.

Takemata Hirotsuna who fought in 4th Kawanakajima and knocked off his horse.

Takemata Yoshitsuna (1524-1582) died in the siege of Uzu Castle.

Are they different individuals? Are they related? I don't have birth/death dates for Hirotsuna.

Thank you.
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marder
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Emmanuel

I have much the same data as you

Doing some digging I can see no references to Hirotsuna apart from the bit about Kawanakajima

Yoshitsuna 竹俣慶綱 たけのまた よしつな 1524 - 1582 Mikawa no Kami
He appears to be the son of Takemata Tametsuna 竹俣為綱 and the grandson of Takemata Kiyotsuna 竹俣清綱

The family appear to be descended from the Sasaki through the Kurata

According to ja-wiki Yoshitsuna was at 4th Kawanakajima and appears to have had an incident with his horse (unless I am reading a poor translation wrongly)

Yoshitsuna's uncle, another son of Kiyotsuna, was Takemata Masatsuna (dates not known) 竹俣昌綱
たけのまた まさつな; who was also a Uesugi retainer

I found no reference to Hirotsuna there at all, so possibly he is actually Yoshitsuna

Hope that is of some use

Phil


Last edited by marder on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bethetsu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with bio Reply with quote
evalerio wrote:
Takemata Yoshitsuna (1524-1582) died in the siege of Uzu Castle.
u.
Shouldn't that be Uozu 魚津 in Etchuu?
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evalerio
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you Marder and Bethetsu.

I wasn't sure about the spelling and got Uzu in Samuraiwiki.

I'm nowhere near finishing the book, but currently sorting out how to end Volume 1. I thought Nagashino and the fall of the Takeda was grim. The downfall of the Uesugi starting with Otate no Ran is just as disastrous. With the Oda invasion of Etchuu and the fall of Uozu castle.

On a slightly bright note to end the book, Oda Nobunaga did not live to enjoy the destruction of the Takeda and the fall of the Uesugi.
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Bethetsu
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
evalerio wrote:
On a slightly bright note to end the book, Oda Nobunaga did not live to enjoy the destruction of the Takeda and the fall of the Uesugi.
That is the first time I have heard Honnoji called a bright note, but it is a way of looking at it.
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evalerio
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
The current Taiga drama have kick-started early work for Volume 2 on Oda Nobunaga. With a chapter for the campaign in Harima.

Volume 2 will also have to end with Honnoji. When the time comes I will have to illustrate Nobunaga's last moment.

In the meantime, I am working on Baba Nobufasa. I have two sets of heraldry for Nobufasa. He may have flown different sets, one while serving Shingen and a final set when he was killed trying to save Katsuyori's 'behind' at Nagashino.

Obata Toramori is said to have served under Nobufasa as an ashigaru taisho, but died in 1561. I don't have info on a specific battle where he distinguished himself. Any help would allow me to put him in the proper chapter.

Thank you.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Emmanuel

It appears to be due to his part in stopping an attack into Takeda territory by Fukushima Masashige from Imagawa lands. He was fighting alongside Hara Toratane under Takeda Nobutora and is described as an Ashigaru daishô. I have a record of Masashige attacking the Takeda in 1521, this would be the Battle of Iidagawara, 16 October 1521

Toramori appears to have got the Tora part of his name then, possibly Hara also did

He appears to have been involved in 36 battles and was wounded 41 times

Hope that helps
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evalerio
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks Marder,

This helps. Thank you. I have some idea now as the book opens with Takeda Nobutora and the birth of Shingen in 1521.

The Battle of Iidagawara in 1521 would be a good place to start.

Here's a bit of confusion. Samuraiwiki had the Battle of Iidagawara in 1521 being led by Kushima Masanari. Is this the same guy as FuKUSHIMA Masashige? In the same bio of Nobutora, Kushima Masanari is later refered to as 'Masashige'.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Emmanuel

According to my family file they are all the same person - Kushima Masashige and Fukushima Masanari being alternate names; also the Sourcebook says it was Fukushima Hyôgo at Iidagawara and Masashige held the Hyôgo no Kami title. Masashige was locally powerful in northern Sagami

After the death of Imagawa Ujiteru Masashige left the Imagawa and I have recorded both his sons were adopted into the Hôjô

I as yet have no link with these Fukushima and the later famous Masanori

Phil
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evalerio
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thank you, Phil.

Every bit of info helps.

Included in the illustration of banners are battlefield scenes, which will show how the banners may have been displayed. This gives me a chance to do 'portraits' of specific individuals.

I've always wanted to do a portrait of Murakami Yoshikiyo, but I don't have anything to help. Such as contemporary illustrations or actual relics of armour.

I am close to finishing a portrait of Yoshikiyo and his men. I am going by 'gut instinct' on their appearance based on how armies were equipped at the time of Takeda Shingen's invasion of Shinano.

Is there a written description of what he may have looked like?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Emmanuel

I have e-mailed you two illustrations that I had on file - one of which appears to be an old one the other a modern impression.

Phil
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