Register :: Log in :: Profile   


The Onin War -- Yamana as traitors?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // Samurai History - Kamakura to Sengoku
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Saru
Merchant
Merchant
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:12 am    Post subject: The Onin War -- Yamana as traitors? Reply with quote
I've been trying to wrap my head around the Onin War lately. So I understand it started with a succession crisis, with Hosokawa Katsumoto supporting Ashikaga Yoshimi as successor to Ashikaga Yoshimasa, while Yamana Sozen supported Yoshimasa's infant son, Yoshihisa. So it seems to me that the Hosokawa were in fact "rebelling" against the shogunate because the actual shogun, Yoshimasa, wanted his son to succeed him. (This is also how the Sengoku game treats the conflict starting in 1467.)

Yet it was ultimately the Yamana who were branded traitors by both the Shogun and the Emperor. Was it because the Hosokawa were so powerful relative to the Yamana that Yoshimasa, given his indifference to politics, simply went along with the Hosokawa, despite their opposition to his preference in the succession crisis? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense given that the Yamana also had the Ouchi clan on their side, so they weren't pushovers. Did it happen after Yoshimasa "abdicated" in favor of Yoshihisa in 1473? If so, even then it still doesn't make sense that they would turn on the Yamana...
_________________
A samurai should twerk hard or hardly twerk.
-Yamamoto Tsunetomo

Read my samurai fiction! http://samuraistories.wordpress.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bethetsu
Oki no Kami
Oki no Kami
Veteran Member



Joined: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1376
Location: Center of Musashi

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: The Onin War -- Yamana as traitors? Reply with quote
Saru wrote:
I've been trying to wrap my head around the Onin War lately. So I understand it started with a succession crisis, with Hosokawa Katsumoto supporting Ashikaga Yoshimi as successor to Ashikaga Yoshimasa, while Yamana Sozen supported Yoshimasa's infant son, Yoshihisa. So it seems to me that the Hosokawa were in fact "rebelling" against the shogunate because the actual shogun, Yoshimasa, wanted his son to succeed him. (This is also how the Sengoku game treats the conflict starting in 1467.)

It seems Yoshimasa officially made his brother Yoshimi his heir before Yoshihisa was born, so his brother was his rightful heir. So, one can say the Hosokawa were in the right.

This is not the only such case that caused problems. The most notable one is Hideyoshi's adopting his nephew Hidetsugu, giving him the title kanpaku, and taking the title Taiko, which meant he had relinquished the title of kanpaku to his son. Then when his own son was born he wanted him to be his heir, and Hideyoshi ended up killing Hidetsugu and his wife, concubines, and children.
In the Edo period, the problem of having a son born after adopting an heir was somewhat avoided by allowing a revokable "provisional adoption" in many cases.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tatsunoshi
Miko no Kami
Miko no Kami
Forum Kanrei
Forum Kanrei
Multi-Year Benefactor
Multi-Year Benefactor



Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 4923
Location: 京都日本 Cincinnati, OH

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
While I don't have the details handy, both the Hosokawa and Yamana gathered large armies and brought them to Kyoto. Before they entered the city, Shogun Ashikaga Yoshimasa issued a decree that forbade anyone from interfering in the Hatakeyama succession (the incident that was the immediate cause of the fighting) and that the first faction to use military force would be branded a rebel. After some shuffling around on all parts, an isolated mansion of a Hosokawa supporter (who was surrounded by Yamana supporters) was burnt-while it was never proved it was the Yamana for sure, it was assumed by everyone they were and they didn't deny it, so they were awarded the title of rebels.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Saru
Merchant
Merchant
Veteran Member



Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
It seems pretty clear Yoshimasa only made his brother his heir when he believed he wouldn't produce any offspring of his own. So while Yoshimi may have had a legitimate claim, might makes right in feudal systems, and while Yoshimasa was more or less a puppet, he still had the agency to throw his shogunal authority behind Hosokawa or Yamana.

The argument that the Yamana were labeled traitors because they were the first to violate the warning to stay out of the Hatakeyama dispute is interesting, but also is somewhat problematic. First, as noted, Yamana Sozen did not so much directly intervene as he secretly provided support to Hatakeyama Yoshinari when he attacked Hatakeyama Masanaga at Goryo Shrine north of Kyoto. Second, even assuming Yoshimasa declared the Yamana traitors for this act, the attack on Gonryo Shrine took place in the first or second months of 1467. The Yamana were not labeled traitors until the sixth month, well after the Hosokawa "officially" started the war by attacking the mansion of Isshiki Yoshinao in Kyoto itself.

I actually went to the library and picked up Varley to see what he had to say, but apparently he's just as puzzled:

Quote:
One of the most puzzling aspects of this first stage of warfare was that Katsumoto, recently out of favor, somehow managed to regain Yoshimasa's confidence. There were many within the shogun's circle strongly opposed to the Hosokawa. Yet on the first day of the sixth month Yoshimasa commissioned his brother Yoshimi to subdue the Yamana and, at the same time, granted Katsumoto use of the shogunal colors. There is a vague reference to this turn of events in one of the journals, but no concrete information on how the Hosokawa chieftain was able to ingratiate himself.


There's a footnote quoting the Go-Hokoin Masaie-ki, the diary of noble Konoe Masaie:

Quote:
"A curious thing has occurred recently. The shogun is sympathetic to Hosokawa. I must investigate and record the details, but in general that is how the rumor goes."

_________________
A samurai should twerk hard or hardly twerk.
-Yamamoto Tsunetomo

Read my samurai fiction! http://samuraistories.wordpress.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Samurai Archives Citadel Forum Index // Samurai History - Kamakura to Sengoku All times are GMT - 10 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Help the Samurai Archives




alexisRed v1.2 // Theme Created By: Andrew Charron // Samuraized By: Aaron Rister

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group