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Aikido and Daito Ryu
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Aikikai
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:33 am    Post subject: Aikido and Daito Ryu Reply with quote
Do someone here practise Daito or Aikido?I practise Aikido, but im really fascinated by Daito too...Is it Daito more effective in an hypothetical fight than Aikido?
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Algren-san
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I practice Aikido. From what I have seen the Daito Ryu seems very interesting. I wouldn't say one martial arts style would be anymore effective than another. It would all depend upon the practioners skill level in the art.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aikikai,

The main difference is that Daito Ryuu is an aikijutsu style as opposed to the more modern aikidou styles.
As for effectiveness...I will reserve my comments in this matter.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Aikido and Daito Ryu Reply with quote
Aikikai wrote:
Do someone here practise Daito or Aikido?I practise Aikido, but im really fascinated by Daito too...Is it Daito more effective in an hypothetical fight than Aikido?



If there were two excellent fighters but one trained in the Way of Harmony and the "blending spirit" of Aikido the other in the Aikijutsu spirit of "I want to break every bone in your body" My money is on the Daito Ryu
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Aikido and Daito Ryu Reply with quote
Bladeswinger wrote:



If there were two excellent fighters but one trained in the Way of Harmony and the "blending spirit" of Aikido the other in the Aikijutsu spirit of "I want to break every bone in your body" My money is on the Daito Ryu


I don't think either is more effective because your point about "wanting to break every bone in the body"
essentially sums up how my average Aikido class goes. Last night I had a class where the first hour all we did was arm breaking techniques then did Judo-type throws for the second hour. So Aikido isn't exactly all soft flowing motion that's generally just for the exercises and warmups. Afterwards it turns into a bunch limb snapping Steven Seagal style techniques. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Algren-san,

Then your school must follow a different track than Ueshiba originally had in mind. Hard techniques did not play a part in his teachings. There is a separate sect of aikidou called Nihon Goshin Aikidou that was founded by Shodo Morita that has considerably more hard techniques to it and is, in general, a different animal that Ueshiba's creation.


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Algren-san
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah we tend to do alot of street effective techniques and various aikido techniques from non traditional attacks. But when I go to the New York Aikikai run by Yoshimitsu Yamada-Sensei (a student of Ueshiba) and the head of the United States Aikido Federation I see alot of the same coming from him. From what I have seen most aikido schools today vary somewhat from what the founder created although I believe his school also had a reputation of being somewhat harsh on its students as well.
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msr.iaidoka
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Algren-san,

What is the name of your aikidou style?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've practiced akido but I never heard of Daito Ryu Confused
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:30 am    Post subject: aikido Reply with quote
Hi Roninmaru, Daito Ryu Aikijutsu was the martial art taught by Sokaku. Ueshiba studied under Sokaku among others. It is generally accepted that the predominate root source of the synthesis of Aikido was Daito Ryu. John
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Algren-san
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
msr.iaidoka wrote:
Algren-san,

What is the name of your aikidou style?


Aikikai. Although Aikido is considered a "soft" flowing style. I would hardly call such techniques as Nikkyo, Kotegaeshi, and throws like a correctly angled iriminage soft. On the contrary many aikido techniques can lead to broken wrists and arms if the nage didn't tap at the first instance of pain. I have seen quite a few injuries in aikido both at my dojo and at the New York Aikikai. I believe any martial art is just as effective as any other depending on the situation. Aikido is no different.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Algren-san,

The softness of the technique does not mean that the end result is any less "angry" than a hard technique. Hard techniques would be along the lines of an elbow strike to and extended arm while a "softer" application of the same would be the opponent's elbow being leveraged against your shoulder or a two-handed arm bar. Both result in a destroyed elbow joint.


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rikoseishin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have not been doing aikidou tolong, but I feel I can say this. I have mentioned it before that people have become focused on the "saitly" image of O sensei befroe his passing. However, he has a tiger then, Let alone in his 50's and 60's. I am lucky enought ot ttrain under an uchideshi of an uchideshi of O sensei's. I have been told of how you had to be very strong mentally and physically to be one of O sensei's uke. So I suppose that in the beginning his ideas were practical and had a very combative edge. However as time went on it has become very "soft". I was actually talking to my sensei a while back, and he told me that even in the US there has been a sepetration form tradition. There is now what is none as the, I think it was, the "East caost" style which seems to be a softer style.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
msr.iaidoka wrote:
Algren-san,

The softness of the technique does not mean that the end result is any less "angry" than a hard technique. Hard techniques would be along the lines of an elbow strike to and extended arm while a "softer" application of the same would be the opponent's elbow being leveraged against your shoulder or a two-handed arm bar. Both result in a destroyed elbow joint.


That was kind of what I was trying to get at with my earlier post. Just because it is a soft technique doesn't mean its less effective than a hard technique. Also as rikoseishin stated Morihei Ueshiba wasn't exactly easy on his students when he taught aikido. Now some styles are very soft and focus more on the Ki aspect whereas others such as the Aikikai and Yoshinkan try to keep it as it was during O-sensei's time. I am not one to believe the "Matrix" stories about Ueshiba, however I do believe the art of aikido to be a very effective style of martial art in the hands of skilled practitioner as is any other style of martial art (Excluding Stephen Hayes' Flying Ninja Style and its kin).
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Algren-san,

Aikikai basically means aiki group. Is that what they have chosen as their ryuuha name?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
msr.iaidoka wrote:
Algren-san,

Aikikai basically means aiki group. Is that what they have chosen as their ryuuha name?


Yeah my Dojo (New Castle Aikikai) is a member of the Aikikai. It is the original style founded by Morihei Ueshiba in the 1940's and is currently run by his grandson Moriteru Ueshiba from the Hombu Dojo in Tokyo. My particular school is part of the East Coast United States Aikido Federation headed by Yoshimitsu Yamada who is also the chairman of the board of the United States Aikido Federation and the Latin American Aikido Federation. My Sensei, Andy Demko, was a student of Yamada Sensei's.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Algren-san,

Thanks for the clarification.


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rikoseishin
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Matt,

I think this will explain maybe a litytle bit more to you about Aikikai, and besides I just like it.

Part I:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98P9N71u4eQ

Part II:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geDeOKaIUDQ

And by the way has anyone seen the video, I am going to pick it up soon, hopefully.
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msr.iaidoka
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rikoseishin,

That part that had me confused about the whole thing was a ryuuha being named Aikikai as opposed to ________ryuu.


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rikoseishin
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ah, okay gotch. Well I guess its clear to you now Smile

Anyway, would you have happen to have seen this. Actually I can not remember is it this one or "The Zen Mind" that has a dlip of Eisaka sensei doing waza?
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msr.iaidoka
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
rikoseishin,

I can not view YouTube on my work computer so I do not know.
And, honestly, the "why" is not clear. But if that is the name, then so be it.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
For our dojo some of our techniques look "hard". Our iriminages for instance look like they could take someones head off, but thats because the speed and fluidity makes it so. And do not get me started on kotegaishi.

Maikeru
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Algren-san
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
maikeruart wrote:
For our dojo some of our techniques look "hard". Our iriminages for instance look like they could take someones head off, but thats because the speed and fluidity makes it so. And do not get me started on kotegaishi.


Nothing improves good ukemi like a well thrown kotegaeshi. You either go for the full break fall or something will surely break when you fall. Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
Algren-san wrote:
maikeruart wrote:
For our dojo some of our techniques look "hard". Our iriminages for instance look like they could take someones head off, but thats because the speed and fluidity makes it so. And do not get me started on kotegaishi.


Nothing improves good ukemi like a well thrown kotegaeshi. You either go for the full break fall or something will surely break when you fall. Wink


I used to dislike koshi nage, I would always have to be uke for someone who was 6'3 + and they never bent their knees so it was a long way down.

Maikeru
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Algren-san
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote
maikeruart wrote:

I used to dislike koshi nage, I would always have to be uke for someone who was 6'3 + and they never bent their knees so it was a long way down.


Yeah I know how that is. At my Dojo we have someone like that and for along time he never threw us correctly so unless you did some fancy turn on the way down you'd always land on your back or hip. One time he even threw somebody onto their head. Laughing
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